Trying to recreate a specific pickelhaube

J

JWSchroeder

New member
I am happy to have found this forum and I hope someone will be able to help me understand which pickelhaube my great grandfather, Freidrich Wilhelm Schroeder would have worn. I would like to buy or recreate a pickelhaube in his honor. I have tried to research it but it is very confusing as to what exactly his pickelhaube should look like. I have a photo of my great grandfather as a Prussian Gefreiter around 1882 but there is no helmet. I have his passport that shows he was in the 55th IR (6th Westphalian) 10th company. He was from Shotmar in the state of Lippe so I assume he was in the Lippe III Batalion of the regiment but that is not in the passport.

I have attached a photo of a pickelhaube in a Lippe museum that might be pretty close to what I'm trying to make. Also attached are pages from the passport with translation and the photo of my great grandfather.

Does this photo represent the kind of pickelhaube a gefreiter would have worn in 1882? If yes, which cockade would be on the right side? If no, what differences would there be?

Thank you for any help anyone here may be able to offer!
 

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  • Pickelhaube 55th 6th Westsphalian Hölter Vicefeldwebel IR55:8C 1871-1914.png
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Hi,

Welcome to the forum, and congratulations with both his picture and his Militärpass!

I'm not an expert on which model he would have worn, but I can try and answer some of the other questions.
  • 10th company is part of the 3rd battalion, 4 companies per battalion.
  • The 2nd Kokarde (the Reichs-Kokarde) was introduced in 1897, and in the introduction document published in the Armee-Verordnungsblätter it is stated that 3rd Btl IR 55 would also wear the "Fürstenthum Lippe", but I haven't been able to find that in the 1896 Bekleidungsordnung, so I don't know which Kokarde they would have worn in 1882. Before 1897 the single Landes-Kokarde would be worn on the right, to be confirmed whether that would be the Prussian or the "Fürstenthum Lippe" Kokarde (the museum picture shows a post-1897 helmet, where the Reichs-Kokarde was now on the right, and the Landes-Kokarde on the left).
Regards,

Lars

EDIT: your great grandfather would have a different type of Kokarde as well, the Kokarde shown is for a Vizefeldwebel, and he would have had a Kokarde for enlisted men (without the add-on ring).
 
Last edited:
Hello JWSchroeder and welcome to the forum. It is really nice that you have such beautiful information about your family history.
As far as I know his helmet should be a Prussian M1871 with yellow fittings and a line eagle, but with a Lippe cockade and a Prussian cockade on the helmet, because your ancestor was born in Lippe. The Prussian cockade was worn on the right side and the Lippe cockade on the left.
Acc. to the pass your great grandfather became promoted to a reserve NCO (Unteroffizier) in June 1884, so his helmet could have looked like the following one, but with Landwehr cross and cockades like stated before.
IMG_4191.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Lars13 said:
Hi,

Welcome to the forum, and congratulations with both his picture and his Militärpass!

I'm not an expert on which model he would have worn, but I can try and answer some of the other questions.
  • 10th company is part of the 3rd battalion, 4 companies per battalion.
  • The 2nd Kokarde (the Reichs-Kokarde) was introduced in 1897, and in the introduction document published in the Armee-Verordnungsblätter it is stated that 3rd Btl IR 55 would also wear the "Fürstenthum Lippe", but I haven't been able to find that in the 1896 Bekleidungsordnung, so I don't know which Kokarde they would have worn in 1882. Before 1897 the single Landes-Kokarde would be worn on the right, to be confirmed whether that would be the Prussian or the "Fürstenthum Lippe" Kokarde (the museum picture shows a post-1897 helmet, where the Reichs-Kokarde was now on the right, and the Landes-Kokarde on the left).
Regards,

Lars

EDIT: your great grandfather would have a different type of Kokarde as well, the Kokarde shown is for a Vizefeldwebel, and he would have had a Kokarde for enlisted men (without the add-on ring).
Click to expand...
Thank you Lars13. I'm happy to be here! Thanks also for clarifying how battalions are numbered. I never realized that knowing the company number would indicate the battalion number as well. I appreciate the info on the kokarde as well. Do you happen to have a picture example of what an gefreiter's Lippe kokarde looks like?
 
Sandmann said:
Hello JWSchroeder and welcome to the forum. It is really nice that you have such beautiful information about your family history.
As far as I know his helmet should be a Prussian M1871 with yellow fittings and a line eagle, but with a Lippe cockade and a Prussian cockade on the helmet, because your ancestor was born in Lippe. The Prussian cockade was worn on the right side and the Lippe cockade on the left.
Acc. to the pass your great grandfather became promoted to a reserve NCO (Unteroffizier) in June 1884, so his helmet could have looked like the following one, but with Landwehr cross and cockades like stated before.
View attachment 35296
Click to expand...
Thank you Sandman! Yes, I was lucky that my grandmother and grandfather kept some of my great grandfathers things and they kept in touch with German relatives. Freidrich Wilhelm immigrated to the USA after his military service and started a family. Unfortunately, I don't know much about military items. Thank for sharing an example of the M1871 and what Kokarde would be on it. Do you have a photo of what the Lippe Kokarde would look like? That part is confusing to me. I'm trying to recreate items that would correspond to the portrait which is why I want to have a helmet from 1882 instead of 1884. Would a gefreiter basically have the same helmet as shown in your photo (besides the Kokardes)? I can't figure out which ranks had chin scales, the rib going up the back, or which kind of spike and base the different ranks had. I think I understand which wappen I need. I'll probably have to create a reproduction as I doubt I can afford an original. Thanks so much!
 
JWSchroeder said:
Thank you Sandman! Yes, I was lucky that my grandmother and grandfather kept some of my great grandfathers things and they kept in touch with German relatives. Freidrich Wilhelm immigrated to the USA after his military service and started a family. Unfortunately, I don't know much about military items. Thank for sharing an example of the M1871 and what Kokarde would be on it. Do you have a photo of what the Lippe Kokarde would look like? That part is confusing to me. I'm trying to recreate items that would correspond to the portrait which is why I want to have a helmet from 1882 instead of 1884. Would a gefreiter basically have the same helmet as shown in your photo (besides the Kokardes)? I can't figure out which ranks had chin scales, the rib going up the back, or which kind of spike and base the different ranks had. I think I understand which wappen I need. I'll probably have to create a reproduction as I doubt I can afford an original. Thanks so much!
Click to expand...
The helmet would have looked exactly like the shown one, but with enlisted men cockades (diam. 50 mm) and an enlisted men liner with round tongues. The Lippe cockade on the left was red with a yellow serrated edge, the Prussian cockade on the right was black with a painted white ring on it. Please look here for more informations about cockades:

Kaisersbunker.com - Pickelhauben Kokarden
Historien-Kabinett.net - Pickelhauben Kokarden
 
Sandmann said:
The helmet would have looked exactly like the shown one, but with enlisted men cockades (diam. 50 mm) and an enlisted men liner with round tongues. The Lippe cockade on the left was red with a yellow serrated edge, the Prussian cockade on the right was black with a painted white ring on it. Please look here for more informations about cockades:

Kaisersbunker.com - Pickelhauben Kokarden
Historien-Kabinett.net - Pickelhauben Kokarden
Click to expand...
Thank you Sandman for the breakdown! It's just what I needed to confirm what I need to do! Really appreciate it!
 
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