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 Post subject: Minneapolis show
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:36 pm 
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Been stewing on this one for a few days, and decided to bring it up here, it is all over other forums.

We have a long standing Military show at the Minnesota State Fairgrounds twice a year, good regional show that draws good crowds.

Also, get to see many friends and forum members like Alan S., Jerry R., Bob E. Chip M. etc.

They just announced there will be no Nazi items allowed to be sold or displayed at the show. Many table holders are getting there money back, but sadly a long time show will be gone unless they try and move to new location in future?

I do not collect Third Reich stuff, but do sell some when I get it to fund my Spikes. And to be real, most table holders at shows have some.

Sadly this is what it is coming to now days. Hoping SOS will not be affected, but who knows in the future?

I will no longer be attending the show, not going to drive 2 1/2 hours each way to see a handful of tables that will take minutes to go through. Use to spend hours at the show and at times get tables.

James

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 Post subject: Re: Minneapolis show
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:05 pm 
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I have posted on other forums about this issue, and I do think this is the greatest threat facing the militaria hobby. I can see more venues banning certain items because they don't need to deal with protests and other issues. Jeff Shrader has already posted that OVMS will be enforcing some rules that were long ignored at MAX, such as no Nazi flags on poles, no busts of Hitler or other Third Reich leaders on tables unless those are laid down, no uniforms on mannequins with Nazi armbands, etc.

Now maybe those rules sound harsh, but honestly if I ran a convention center I'd be worried about Antifa protestors clashing with show attendees, and honestly some years MAX looked like a Nazi rally - so I see the concern.

Frankly, I think it is about time that these rules were enforced. While I have nothing against Nazi or Third Reich collectibles, I do understand the concerns. If we want the militaria hobby to grow we need to accept that some things aren't so accepted today. Personally, I think no one should be walking around in a Nazi uniform like the buffoon who dresses as Goering at some shows. I had relatives killed fighting the Nazis and maybe it is about time we don't "honor" the Nazis in any way. I will add for one am sick and tired of people using arguments like, "what about the Japanese, what about the Soviets, what about the Vietcong, etc." Trying to imply that another group was worse just sounds like a lame way to defend the Nazis.

The other thing I'll say is that maybe TR collectors should learn to "bury the lead" just a bit. Time and time again I read on some forums how TR collectors ask, "why isn't our hobby accepted." But these people seem to stress the Nazi part, not the history part. They use history to justify the fact that they collect SS items, etc. I just think if you lead with the "history" part you'd get less push back.

And finally I do think it is going to mean toning down the TR stuff at shows at least for the time being. Otherwise there are going to be incidents and if that happens shows will be canceled. I will continue to go to shows and support the organizers, even if some dealers are pulling out.

It is a scary time right, and I hope we make it through it.


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 Post subject: Re: Minneapolis show
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:14 pm 
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Great points Peter!

Just want to clarify why I will not be attending. Not mad at show promoter, his hands where tied.

It basically comes down to my time and money versus the chance of reward.

With most of these table holders not being able to sell their Third Reich stuff, most simply will not go to the show. These are the guy's who I can sometimes get something WWI from as they bring it but is secondary to them. If they do not go, then not much chance for me to score.

As I see it right now, will be 2 or 3 guys there that sell U.S. stuff, one guy with toy soldiers and a couple book dealers...

James

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 Post subject: Re: Minneapolis show
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:59 am 
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J.LeBrasseur wrote:
Just want to clarify why I will not be attending. Not mad at show promoter, his hands where tied.

It basically comes down to my time and money versus the chance of reward.


I completely understand, and I didn't mean to imply you were in the wrong. I hope it didn't come off that way. We all need to do the shows that make sense to us.

I do fear this is just the beginning...


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 Post subject: Re: Minneapolis show
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:18 am 
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No worries Peter, I did not take your comments as bad at all!

We are all good, just worried bout this part of the hobby.

James

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 Post subject: Re: Minneapolis show
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:05 am 
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First it was Confederate battle flags, now it's the Hakenkreuz. What's next?

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 Post subject: Re: Minneapolis show
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:15 pm 
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keoki7 wrote:
First it was Confederate battle flags, now it's the Hakenkreuz. What's next?


True. We are descending to mob rule.

Having said that, I have no sympathy for those who glorify the Nazis. I grew up surrounded by veterans, and they all had stuff they brought back. I always thought of it as a more civilized way of taking scalps. The vets were saying " we went over there and fought hard and beat those guys, and here's the stuff to prove it".

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Minneapolis show
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:42 am 
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I am hoping that the shows will also bar anyone from entering who is wearing a t shirt with Che on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Minneapolis show
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:30 am 
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I too grew up when every adult male in my area was a vet and always looks upon the TR items as symbols of our victory over them. As to what's next? Well, I do public presentations on WW1 and I'm always running into people who think that anything German equals Nazi.


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 Post subject: Re: Minneapolis show
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:42 am 
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aicusv wrote:
.... always running into people who think that anything German equals Nazi.

Same thing here! :-P
Also collect police items, and I am no police officer;..... they are just trophies! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Minneapolis show
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:12 am 
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Went to the Ciney (Belgium) Militaria Fair twice. Some dealers were specialized in Nazi stuff. Not the real thing. Toy figures-The whole bunch of the Nazi top as dolls...Raising their arm on command. Filth!!! Visitors dressed in long leather coats with AH "mane". Creepy! No control at the entrance-no dress code. I saw it all.
Nothing against collecting the real thing!

Years ago I talked to an Auctionhouse owner. He told me one of the most creepy stories in his carreer. They had a 3rd Reich "Deutschland Erwache" flag. It was sold to a man in black. No problem: 25.000 Euro's cash!!! When he delivered the thing to the buyers villa he was greeted by two guys in a black kind of uniform. Complete with this weird kinda haircut....


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 Post subject: Re: Minneapolis show
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:02 pm 
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I will be at the show no matter what as it is in my back yard so to speak. Its sad what not much we can do for this show at this point. I guess all my boxes of US stuff will fill my tables. Bolshevists.

Jerry


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 Post subject: Re: Minneapolis show
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:57 am 
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Quote:
I'm always running into people who think that anything German equals Nazi.


Amen

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 Post subject: Re: Minneapolis show
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:42 am 
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Going back to the initial posting by James in regards to the recently banned 3rd Reich items for the show: Here's a link to a news article on what the 2-promotors did recently to the 30+ year old Minnesota Military Show: http://www.startribune.com/nazi-flags-s ... 444895423/

Bob Johnson's partner in the show, Joe Dudley, is an attorney.

I'll be at the show with a display only table for Saturday only. Looking forward to seeing those who can attend.

I sometimes run into people that don't know me who mistakenly think that my collecting WW1 Imperial German military items means that I collect 3rd Reich items. ](*,) Apparently all they know of German history is the short-lived nazi era, and they somehow come to the conclusion that all German military items must be nazi. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Minneapolis show
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:41 pm 
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"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
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 Post subject: Re: Minneapolis show
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:14 pm 
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I don't think anyone forced this issue. Instead I think it was the show itself.

Bob made a fortune selling TR stuff that he bought for pennies on the dollar from vets. Then selling for crazy prices. I know, because I have a few things from him. It doesn't matter to him because those "pay nothing and sell for a fortune" days are over.

That being said, the hobby has never done a good job policing itself. We always knew some people were there (selling, buying, or just strutting through) for the wrong reasons.

In Germany you have to cover up the Swaz at a show. Plenty of TR stuff is sold. They did what it takes to survive. We should learn from that.

But....

What does one expect from our dumbed down ignorant society? When you go to B&N, check out the European History section. Each nation has a section of books with their long time culture and history. Check out the German History section and all they have is a couple of books on the TR. Almost every title has "Nazi", "Hitler", or the "Holocaust" in it.

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 Post subject: Re: Minneapolis show
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:17 pm 
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keoki7 wrote:
First it was Confederate battle flags, now it's the Hakenkreuz. What's next?


They want the Founding Fathers, and then invalidate the Constitution. That has been the goal of Progressives since Woodrow Wilson. That is all they care about. The rest is all just a smokescreen, and a means to the end result.

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