decyphering a name on dagger scabbard

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alte helm zimmer
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decyphering a name on dagger scabbard

Post by alte helm zimmer » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:13 pm

This is on an 1891 Imperial German long cadet naval dagger scabbard ..I am trying to read the name--- I believe it is
capital--- b or l -- then ------- ieffens... can any one definitely read the first letter and the name...
I googled german writing and believe this style is called Kurrent .......
when finally becoming an offizier the user was able to continue wearing this model ..
IMG_0289.JPG
IMG_0287.JPG

please help-if you are conversant in this-----alte helm zimmer ----randolpho ----- my first attempt at a post and photos

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Sandmann
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Re: decyphering a name on dagger scabbard

Post by Sandmann » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:11 am

Unfortunately I can‘t see the picture :|
Maybe this Link will help, there are some Variants of the handwritten „Kanzlei-Schrift“:
http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Lese/Kanzlei2.htm

Further here you will find some Variants of „Fraktur-Schrift“:, which was mostly use for Cyphers:
http://keywordsuggest.org/gallery/190991.html
Best wishes, Sandy

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Re: decyphering a name on dagger scabbard

Post by alte helm zimmer » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:05 pm

thanks very much herr sandman-- this information has given me several other possibilities ----perhaps a--t----now i will try looking him up with T ---as b or l gave me no responses --- is tieffens or tiessens a name you have heard of previously?????-what else makes a name ending with---- iessens--
the lack of photos is probably my fault as this is my first try to send them i 'll try a again in a day or two.. regards ----randolpho

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Jaap Verduijn
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Re: decyphering a name on dagger scabbard

Post by Jaap Verduijn » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:14 am

"Tiessens" is a fairly common name in the northeast of the Netherlands and the adjoining northwest of Germany - like the area in and around Emden. It's a patronym, from the man's name Ties. So as a name inside a helmet or in this case on a dagger scabbard "Tiessens" is a very good possibility.
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alte helm zimmer
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Re: decyphering a name on dagger scabbard

Post by alte helm zimmer » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:44 pm

Thanks so much Jaap.....I thought a European was needed to unravel that..Now I 'll concentrate on Tieff(ss)en and see what I find...It also makes sense that a lad from coast would enter the navy..I'll let you know if luck is here..I once had a fine Reserve Offizier Mecklenburg Schweren helm which had been found on the north coast of the Netherlands.------. Danke------Randolpho

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Re: decyphering a name on dagger scabbard

Post by b.loree » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:27 pm

AHZ...great to have you back with us, there is an explanation of how the new picture posting is done in the Welcome section of the forum called Adding Pictures to Post. Have a look there but if all else fails email your pics to me and I will post them as before.
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...

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Re: decyphering a name on dagger scabbard

Post by Jaap Verduijn » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:57 am

Hi Randolpho! A major problem with tracing patronyms from the Ostfriesland area is that there are/were so many bearers of those names. Now take myself: one of my great-great-grandfathers was a sea captain by the name of Friedrich Martin Carsjens, born in the first half of the 1800's in Emden. I'd like to learn more about him, but the only thing that I could find is his father's name: Bartolomäus Carsjens - from there on I run into a brick wall. Carsjens (also spelled Carstens) is a patronym from the man's name Cars of Carst, just like T(h)iessen(s) derives from the man's name Ties. Considering that during many centuries the same first names kept reappearing in those families, there were many, MANY "sons of Ties" when surnames became obligatory. So lots of Tiessens, just like lots of Carsjens. In civilian archives it's difficult to find any particular one - military archives may be somewhat easier. Many "German" Tiessens migrated to the Netherlands, even to the extend that A.D. 2018 there may be living more "here" than "there".

There is, by the way, also a German "von Tie(f)fen" family - an ancient noble crowd. Unfortunately I can't tell you much about them, I don't think it's a common name nowadays.

Try to post a pic (Brian referred to the posting where that's explained), maybe all of us together can figure out whether it's indeed Tiessens, which is rather likely anyway as you stated, considering the conection with those families to the sea, or whether that nefarious old German writing confuses us to the extend that there's another name altogether. That particular German writing always reminds me of the exclamations of the little bird Woodstock in the Peanuts/Charlie Brown cartoons :D
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Re: decyphering a name on dagger scabbard

Post by b.loree » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:57 pm

Today, I made a new step by step explanation of the new picture posting process in the Posting Photographs section. I tried to explain things in a manner by which someone of the older generation like myself, could place pictures on the forum successfully. As forum moderator, it is a bit frustrating knowing that we have older collectors out there with fabulous collections who are willing to share but they do not have the skills to get their pictures on the site.
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...

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Re: decyphering a name on dagger scabbard

Post by Sandmann » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:32 pm

alte helm zimmer wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:05 pm
thanks very much herr sandman-- this information has given me several other possibilities ----perhaps a--t----now i will try looking him up with T ---as b or l gave me no responses --- is tieffens or tiessens a name you have heard of previously?????-what else makes a name ending with---- iessens--
the lack of photos is probably my fault as this is my first try to send them i 'll try a again in a day or two.. regards ----randolpho
You’re welcome...and call me Sandy :wink:
But as Jaap said, try again to upload the pic, the old german handwriting is not easy to read. I’m still not perfect in reading all slopy handwritings, but since I investigated in my family history my ability to read Kanzlei-Handwriting is getting better and better :D
Best wishes, Sandy

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Re: decyphering a name on dagger scabbard

Post by alte helm zimmer » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:24 pm

guten abendt---- Sandy--Jaap & Brian-----we will try soon---- tomorrow ? with a fresh bunch of energy ____My wife is more at ease with this verdamt computer scheiss than am I---We read over the new photo guide and it seems we did much of that --now for a few tweaks and perhaps --success..Thank s for your new guide. Brian---- I need to be able to do this !!!!!!!!!!! along with learning not to make so many******* typing errors... the TIME interval as not been wasted... I"ve been reading military books along with nautical history and



European ceramics (our other passions )and practicing photography= along with keeping up with PH from a distance--- This site seems to be
rejuvenating-- since the new photo program was initiated..

The variety of German script has has been a focus for months and very frustrating ....I have practiCed and read frequently to the point where I can discern many of the letters---JUST NOT THE ONES I NEED..until next time ..Schlaff Gute Kameraden ---Alte Helm Zimmer Randolpho

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Re: decyphering a name on dagger scabbard

Post by aicusv » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:23 am

My Mother -in -Law use to write in the old script - I could never figure out her notes.
fezzes frigidus es

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Re: decyphering a name on dagger scabbard

Post by alte helm zimmer » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:54 pm

IMG_0287.JPG
IMG_0287.JPG
Here are the photos of the 1891scabbard--ahz

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Re: decyphering a name on dagger scabbard

Post by alte helm zimmer » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:07 pm

IMG_0288.JPG[/atta[attachment 8.JPG
here is photo # 2
Attachments
IMG_0288.JPG

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Re: decyphering a name on dagger scabbard

Post by alte helm zimmer » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:32 pm

IMG_0329.JPG
sorry --on my computer these are vertical

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Re: decyphering a name on dagger scabbard

Post by alte helm zimmer » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:41 pm

IMG_0328.JPG

if you click to enlarge the photo is vertical--------- ahz

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Re: decyphering a name on dagger scabbard

Post by alte helm zimmer » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:57 pm

Brian ----thanks very much for the new photo instructions ---THEY WORKED as you can see...Can I do it again????? AHZ- Randolpho

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Re: decyphering a name on dagger scabbard

Post by Sandmann » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:53 pm

I would say it is the Name „Steffens“ written.
PS: I‘m pretty sure..
Last edited by Sandmann on Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Best wishes, Sandy

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Re: decyphering a name on dagger scabbard

Post by b.loree » Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:11 pm

Yahoo! AHZ well done sir.....keep it up.....the photos I mean! :)
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