Flugeladjutant Helmets

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Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by b.loree » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:48 pm

As the result of my "Mystery Officer Helmet" post, the piece in question has been identified as a Flugeladjutant from Saxe Coburg Gotha in the post 1905 style. Fortunately, we have a member who has several of these rare helmets in his collection and he has kindly agreed to provide photos and descriptions. So, this will be the first of a series of posts on the Flugeladjutant helmet. The Hessen Fadj. helmet:
COMPRESSED 2 DSCN1028.jpg
Compressed Hesse Flugel Adjutant DSCN1024.jpg
Compressed Hesse Flugel Adjutant DSCN1023.jpg
Compressed Hesse Flugel Adjutant DSCN1022.jpg
DSCN1031.JPG
DSCN1030.JPG
Compressed Hesse Flugel Adjutant DSCN1028.jpg
Hesse A d C -Major.jpg
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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by 911car » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:05 pm

Interesting.
Happy to try and contribute to the new post effort, Brian.
Here is another one.
L1060098_zpsdfla8atg.jpg
L1060018_zpsfncx9iks.jpg
L1060012_zps9welp2nq.jpg
L1060103_zps9brw8dpj.jpg

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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by b.loree » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:36 pm

Many thanks Bruno, that was quick! That is a beautiful helmet you have there! Here is some additional text provided by Jim Turinetti who is sending photos of his collection:

Flugeladjutants and General Adjutants were officers who were assigned to the staff of a king,duke,prince or senior commander to serve as an Administrative or Executive Assistant. The German translation of flugel is "wing". The Flugel Adjutant, was a special assistant or aide to the German rulers at all levels (kingdom, Grand Duchy, Principality etc. and served at all ranks from General Officer on down and often came from the nobility.
For parades, senior staff officers in the War Ministry Cabinet, the General staff, the Greater General Staff, War Ministry, Flugel Adjutants and members of the General Staff wore a white horse hair busch.
Numerous European authors state that the Duchies and Principalities wore Fuerst on their helmet banners in place of Koenig. The clothing regulations say that the helmets of the Duchies and Principalities should be patterned after the Prussian model. This indicates to me, that they should wear Koenig. I have seen both Koenig and Fuerst on these helmets. Given human nature what it is, I think that these officers might possibly have been showing their loyalty to their monarch.
Hesse: Hesse Generals did not take a pearl ring on their helmet's spike throat.
The Hesse style General Officer's helmet had a round front visor instead of the squared visor of the Prussian style helmet.
The Hesse Flugel Adjutant: Flugel Adjutants wore a Dragoon officer's helmet with a fluted spike. A Hesse FA wore the helmet of Dragoon Regt 23 of Hesse.
The helmet had all silver fittings with convex chin scales round top fasteners for the spike base and the Hesse plate with a double leaf wreath and a silver and enamel Ludvig Star with the Motto: Gott Ehre Vaterland. For parade, they wore a white over red buffalo hair busch with a fluted trichter.
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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by b.loree » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:41 pm

Additional photos:
DSCN1044.JPG
DSCN1045.JPG
DSCN1046.JPG
Of note, most Hesse officer wappen that I have seen have the screw posts soldered on the diagonal not the typical horizontal which we see here.
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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by b.loree » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:52 pm

Steve strikes again, with some examples from his collection :D :
Kurt von Gillhausen.jpeg
Carl Edward von Gillhausen Saxe Coburg FA
C E front.jpg
One of his epaulettes.
Carl Edward 1923.jpeg
Carl Edward in 1923.
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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by KAGGR#1 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:34 pm

Brian ;
Thanks again for all your good work.
And thanks to Jim Turinetti for the photos
of his very rare helmets
Jim I am looking forward to the next one
Bruno also thanks for getting in so quickly
nice helmets
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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by SHOOTEST » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:11 pm

I want to thank Brian and all of you fellow collectors for all of your help in identifying this helmet that I have owned for many years. It looks like my work is cut out for me if I reside to restore this helmet back to original condition. I am sure the correct plate for this one will cost an arm and leg and will be very hard to find.
Now I have to ask myself the big question, do I put out the funds or do I want to trade it for something else that is complete ?
I know this would be a high dollar helmet if it was restored to original condition so what should I do ? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated !
:?

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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by 911car » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:15 am

SHOOTEST wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:11 pm
I want to thank Brian and all of you fellow collectors for all of your help in identifying this helmet that I have owned for many years. It looks like my work is cut out for me if I reside to restore this helmet back to original condition. I am sure the correct plate for this one will cost an arm and leg and will be very hard to find.
Now I have to ask myself the big question, do I put out the funds or do I want to trade it for something else that is complete ?
I know this would be a high dollar helmet if it was restored to original condition so what should I do ? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated !
:?
In my opinion, the chance you will find an original plate is extremely low, to say the least. Most collectors, even experienced ones, have never seen one, and would not even know what it looks like without digging into reference books. The chance you will find an original plate THAT FITS (correct size) without butchering attachments is virtually nil. Then you would have to find a pair of silver domed chinscales of the right size. Much easier than the front plate, but not so easy... I cannot see on the pictures if the state cockade is correct but this might be another challenge.
Well, you can still believe in a miracle...
Best wishes;

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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by Arran » Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:05 am

The S-C-G "mystery" helmet is so rare, that if someone out there does have a plate, it likely comes from this very helmet!
Looking for German-made pickelhauben for foreign markets!

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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by b.loree » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:12 am

I mentioned that I had run into one of these Flugel Adj. helmets back in the late 80's. The kokade suggests that this one was from Anhalt! As I said in another post, once a dealer knows he has a serious collector customer all kinds of helmets start to show up in his store. I could have bought this helmet which was complete except for the missing officer Garde star but internet was limited, I did not have a computer and where would I find one...Manions??? I dug up my photos of this and I apologise for the poor quality but we did not have digital cameras back then and inside pics always involved using a flash. Photos were taken in the dealer's (Brian Lawrence) store:
IMG_1152.JPG
If you look closely, this helmet has the "Fuerst" bandeau as mentioned by Jim in his previous description.
IMG_1153.JPG
A solid green Anhalt officer kokarde.
IMG_1154.JPG
I mentioned Manions Auction House, now long gone but I am sure members of a certain age remember their catalogues. For younger members, the only way I could access the US militaria market was through this auction house. This was the most convenient, bid on items pictured in their catalogue and hope for the best. I eventually heard about the MAX Show and I did finally drive down to Pittsburgh.....what a surprise!! :-?
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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by KAGGR#1 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:31 am

Question ; Finding the correct plate ? Jan Kube 's next auction has the largest and rarest collection of
helmet front plates that I have ever seen . The plate that you need is NOT in that auction .
I don't know how old you are , but you could spend the rest of your life and never find the correct
plate as Bruno has said .It that helmet were mine and I had a good offer for it , I would sell it .
I have an accurate drawing of the plate that I sent to Brian . My reference is ; Zeitschrift fur Heereskunde
1940 - 1944 pages 43 ; 44 & 45 Article ; Die Flugeladjutanten der Herzoge und Grossherzoge von Sachsen
by von Oberslieutnant Fiebig . He was also an the author of a well know book on Imperial German Regimental flags .
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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by KAGGR#1 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:34 am

P S ;
If that plate were to show up at an auction I know at least
2 very serious collectors who would be bidding very heavy for that plate .
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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by SHOOTEST » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:41 pm

I want to thank all of you guys for your reply's to my question about this helmet ! I guess the best thing I could do is to pass it on to someone that will do it justice. I wanted an example of a helmet with a swept winged pate to round out my small collection when I got this one, I had no idea how rare it was.
Maybe I could trade for something like that and make my life a lot easier !

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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by 911car » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:33 pm

b.loree wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:12 am
I mentioned that I had run into one of these Flugel Adj. helmets back in the late 80's. The kokade suggests that this one was from Anhalt! As I said in another post, once a dealer knows he has a serious collector customer all kinds of helmets start to show up in his store. I could have bought this helmet which was complete except for the missing officer Garde star but internet was limited, I did not have a computer and where would I find one...Manions??? I dug up my photos of this and I apologise for the poor quality but we did not have digital cameras back then and inside pics always involved using a flash. Photos were taken in the dealer's (Brian Lawrence) store:
IMG_1152.JPG
If you look closely, this helmet has the "Fuerst" bandeau as mentioned by Jim in his previous description.
IMG_1153.JPG
A solid green Anhalt officer kokarde.
IMG_1154.JPG
I mentioned Manions Auction House, now long gone but I am sure members of a certain age remember their catalogues. For younger members, the only way I could access the US militaria market was through this auction house. This was the most convenient, bid on items pictured in their catalogue and hope for the best. I eventually heard about the MAX Show and I did finally drive down to Pittsburgh.....what a surprise!! :-?
Hi Brian,
Interesting information and pictures. I want to believe that the helmet pictured was actually from Anhalt; however, the center is probably not original. Why would a Flugeladjutant from Anhalt bear a simple, plain, enlisted-type Suum Cuique center motif on the beautiful silver "Fuerst" eagle? In fact, there is an Anhalt Flugeladjutant plate in the coming auction mentioned by Steve: it bears the regular Anhalt arms in gold on a silver star, affixed to the silver Guard eagle. Beautiful plate.

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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by b.loree » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:09 pm

Hi Bruno you are totally correct and even back in the eighties, I knew this star was incorrect, that is why I did not buy it at the time. Someone added that just to fill in. Probably some dealer :) .
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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by KAGGR#1 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:45 pm

I agree with Bruno .The enlisted Prussian Garde star would not go with
an Anhalt officers helmet . No doubt the Anhalt center was missing
and was all the person who owned it could come up with
to fill the missing center .Who knows in those days it might have had
the correct Anhalt center and the owner thought it was incorrect
on a Prussian Garde eagle plate ?
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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by jimturinetti » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:51 pm

For those of you who are interested in learning more about Flugel Adjutant helmets let me point you to the chapter on "General Officer Helmets" in A Guide to Collecting The Headgear of the 1914 German Army The helmets for the GOs of all of the kingdoms and principalities along with their corresponding Flugel Adjutanten are pictured and described in these 10 pages of this chapter.

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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by J.LeBrasseur » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:56 pm

jimturinetti wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:51 pm
For those of you who are interested in learning more about Flugel Adjutant helmets let me point you to the chapter on "General Officer Helmets" in A Guide to Collecting The Headgear of the 1914 German Army The helmets for the GOs of all of the kingdoms and principalities along with their corresponding Flugel Adjutanten are pictured and described in these 10 pages of this chapter.
There you go, I had not looked at Jim's guide book for awhile, but he does a great job of showing and explaining the differences etc.

Thanks Jim for the reminder.

James
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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by b.loree » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:52 pm

Jim's next helmet, a Flugel Adj. helme from Lippe post 1912:
Compressed Lippe FA Post 1912 DSCN0956.JPG
Furst on Banner DSCN0958.jpg
This one has the Fuerst bandeau.
Post 1912 DSCN09571.JPG
Post 1912 DSCN09592.JPG
Cropped DSCN0964.jpg
Post 1912 DSCN09625.JPG
Post 1912 DSCN09603.JPG
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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by SkipperJohn » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:59 am

Stunning --- each and every one!

John :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by b.loree » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:58 pm

Today's post from the Turinetti collection is an FA helmet from Oldenburg. This helmet is an example from pre 1905. Again, my thanks to Jim for sharing his collection with us.
Compressed DSCN0258.JPG
Compressed DSCN0259.JPG
Compressed Oldenburg DSCN026203.JPG
Compressed Oldenburg DSCN026607.JPG
Compressed Oldenburg DSCN026708.JPG
Compressed Oldenburg DSCN026405.JPG
Compressed Oldenburg DSCN026304.JPG
More pictures of these rare and beautiful helmets to come.
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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by KAGGR#1 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:12 pm

Jim ;
Thanks so much for the photos .
This may be the only chance that we
would ever have to see these helmets .
Steve McFarland

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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by aicusv » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:16 pm

They're too pretty to look at
fezzes frigidus es

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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by JzPf » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:58 pm

Outstanding helmets, thanks for sharing!

Dennis

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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by b.loree » Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:05 pm

Our next FA helmet is an example of a pre 1912 Lippe:
Pre 1912 DSCN02902.JPG
Pre 1912 DSCN02913.JPG
Pre 1912 DSCN02861.JPG
Pre 1912 DSCN02944.JPG
Pre 1912 Pre 1912 Lippe FA Label 5.jpg
Pre 1912 Silber Hochz 0736.JPG
Pre 1912 Silber_Hochz_0697.JPG
Pre 1912 Silber_Hochz_0728.JPG
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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by Steve Nick » Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:43 pm

Stunning, gorgeous helmets!

Reminds me why I find the Imperial era so appealing. :thumb up:

Thanks for sharing these.

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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by b.loree » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:17 pm

Our next FA comes from Saxe Weimar Meiningen:
Compressed Saxe-Meinigen FA DSCN0440.JPG
Compressed Saxe-Meinigen FA DSCN0441.JPG
Saxe-Meiningen Fllugel Adjutant  DSCN044202.JPG
Saxe-Meiningen Fllugel Adjutant  DSCN044303.JPG
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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by b.loree » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:19 pm

More:
Saxe-Meiningen Fllugel Adjutant  DSCN044505.JPG
Saxe-Meiningen Fllugel Adjutant  Saxe-Meinigen AdC 20161030_145920_resized06.jpg
Saxe-Meiningen Fllugel Adjutant  Saxe-Meinigen AdC 20161030_145929_resized07.jpg
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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by 911car » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:59 pm

These are amazing helmets. Congratulations to Jim (and thanks to Brian for posting pictures).
Regarding the latest entry, is it Weimar or Meiningen? The state cockade indicates Sachsen-Meiningen (the Sachsen-Weimar colours were green/yellow/black). Ian Kube shows a plate for a 1912 Sachsen-Meiningen Flugeladjutant helmet in his latest catalogue but colours are inverted (silver star and yellow emblem) and adds in the description that the center should be enameled, according to litterature. Do we have here an earlier variation?

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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by b.loree » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:53 pm

Thank you Bruno, I will alert Jim regarding your question on this helmet. Regarding pictures, I just post them, all credit goes to Jim, Steve, Verdun 16, Tony, yourself and all others who have posted here during this world wide crisis. My intention is, to keep the site as active as possible with many posts from all members. We are all surrounded with uncertainty and stress right now, let us use the forum as a positive in our lives. As such, I would encourage all of our senior members who have large collections to share here with us. For the newer members or folks with smaller collections, get on board also, ask questions and post photos. I am going to do the same! Take care everyone...Game On!
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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by jimturinetti » Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:49 pm

Good eye Bruno. This was sold to me as the helmet for a FA from Saxe-Meinigen. I got this helmet from Ron Fengler in Germany. I don't know if this is an early model plate or just wrong. The next helmet Brian will post for me will be from Saxe-Weimar. Thanks again Brian for posting all of these for me. Jim

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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by KAGGR#1 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:15 pm

Jim ;
I would stick with the fact that all wide winged eagles for the F A helmets would be silver .
To me some of the plates in the next Kube auction might not have ever been used on helmets .
It is possible that some might be plates that were shown by the firm that supplied the helmets .
I sure hope that you win the ones that you will go after .If so later on they be posted on the site .

I sent you the text by Fiebig about the helmets and helmet plates of the Sax -Duchies .
What did he say about the helmet plate in question ? I don't remember any Sax- Duchie
( I R 94 ; I R 95 or 153 ) ever having any enamel plate ?
At one time I owned Carl Edward's helmet as Chef of the regiment .It did not have any
enameled center .Maybe I misunderstand Bruno' s question ?
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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by b.loree » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:02 pm

Here is today's post from Jim's collection and unfortunately, the last one in this series. I hope everyone has noted that Jim, as a fellow collector, has given us detailed photos of his helmets...wappen removed, rear pics of wappen, makers labels, wappen close ups, kokarden etc. These photos go way beyond what we normally find in expensive, weighty collector references. Waldeck Pyrmont FA:
Waldeck-Pyrmont  Compressed DSCN118503.jpg
Waldeck-Pyrmont  Compressed DSCN118604.jpg
Waldeck-Pyrmont   Compressed DSCN117307.jpg
How many close ups of a WP officer kokarde have you seen?
Waldeck-Pyrmont  Compressed DSCN117601.jpg
Waldeck-Pyrmont  Compressed DSCN118202.jpg
One thing that I would like to personally point out regarding the spike tops on most of these FA helmets, they are the "General Officer" model where the spike top meets flush with the spike neck. They are fluted like the Bavarians BUT they do not have the "lip" which extends over and around the spike neck. Again, thank you very much Jim for sharing your collection with us. Jim always has tables at the SOS and once we get through this crisis and back to collecting at shows make sure to drop by his display and say hello. :thumb up:
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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by J.LeBrasseur » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:18 pm

Incredible helmets to say the least, I really like the last one!

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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by 911car » Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:05 pm

KAGGR#1 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:15 pm
Jim ;
I would stick with the fact that all wide winged eagles for the F A helmets would be silver .
To me some of the plates in the next Kube auction might not have ever been used on helmets .
It is possible that some might be plates that were shown by the firm that supplied the helmets .
I sure hope that you win the ones that you will go after .If so later on they be posted on the site .

I sent you the text by Fiebig about the helmets and helmet plates of the Sax -Duchies .
What did he say about the helmet plate in question ? I don't remember any Sax- Duchie
( I R 94 ; I R 95 or 153 ) ever having any enamel plate ?
At one time I owned Carl Edward's helmet as Chef of the regiment .It did not have any
enameled center .Maybe I misunderstand Bruno' s question ?
Steve McFarland
Hi Steve, no question about FA eagles being silver, of course.
I was only referring to the Sachsen-Meiningen plate shown in I. Kube's catalogue, that carries a golden Sachsen coat of arms on a silver star. He writes in the description that the coat of arms (Rautenkronenwappen) should be in black/gold/green.
I agree with you that reading his descriptions of other Flugeladjutant plates, there seems to be some uncertainties. For instance, he shows a plate for a FA from Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt but acknowledges in the description that there is no published account that this plate ever existed...

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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by KAGGR#1 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:30 am

Bruno ;
Thanks for that info
I hope that things are O K out your way
Best wishes
Steve

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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by pickelhauben » Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:49 am

Wow spectacular helmets .
I have never seen much less heard of these .
Were is the last one with the red Maltese on it from ?
Any history or story behind that piece ?

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Re: Flugeladjutant Helmets

Post by Arran » Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:42 pm

Here is a REPLICA of the plate purporting to be from Sachsen-Meiningen. I have never seen an original, and can't say wether this is an accurate representation or not. Very pretty nonetheless!
Attachments
FluegeladlerSM.jpg
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