The Hessen Family of Helmets and Their Characteristics

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The Hessen Family of Helmets and Their Characteristics

Post by 911car » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:42 am

For comparison...
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Post by reservist1 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:59 pm

Larry: For further comparison here is another IR115 helmet made by Martin Mayer, Mainz, in 1915.

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Post by b.loree » Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:22 pm

Excellent helmets all round gentlemen. I am wondering, are all the 115 OR's helmets shown here on the forum the type where only the tip of the spike screws off? The one that I have in my collection is like that. Is this typical of OR 115 helmets or are there variations? I have a Hessen reserve officer hemet with brass fittings where the spike tip and collar screw down over the neck of the spike fitting. More like a traditional Prussian spike. R1 your OR 115 helme seems to have the spike tip and collar type of top on it.
Did the other Hessen Regts with brass fittings follow this characteristic where only the very tip of the spike unscrews?? And, how about the Hessen dragoon helmet spikes?? I guess, that I am trying to use our collector net work here to establish some typical Hessen characteristics for ORs and officer helmets both in brass and silver fittings. The Hessens in general, are very rare, but we do have a world wide network here and I do think that it would be very beneficial to establish some common traits for both brass and silver officer and ORs plus of course the helmets from JR115. I promise to put up pics of what I have in my collection. One last thing, was Mayer the exclusive manufacturer for JR115?? What about the other Hessen Regts?? I look forward to some interesting findings on this thread. Who else has the resources at their disposal that we do fellow forum members. Please check the Hessen helmets that you have in your collectiions. All the best, Brian
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Post by Lost Skeleton » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:33 am

b.loree wrote:And, how about the Hessen dragoon helmet spikes??
Hi Brian:

That's an excellent idea regarding a Hessen database, but instead of making it an addendum to this discussion, it should start life as a Sticky in "Pickelhaube discussion" (as things quickly get buried unless they're headliners).

This would be my contribution:

http://www.pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3411
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Post by reservist1 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:00 pm

R1 your OR 115 helme seems to have the spike tip and collar type of top on it.
Brian: The screw off spike on my 115th helmet has an intergral collar.

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It is also interesting to note the differences in the position of the "1621" bandeau on the four samples illustrated. My helmet and Larry's have the bandeau mounted such that it sits on top of the foward arm of the spike base. Tony's and Bruno's helmets have the bandeau positioned under the front arm of the cross base.

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Post by 911car » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:18 am

Good point, R1. The same applies to the IR115 Filzhelm.
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Post by 911car » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:29 am

Hi Brian,
All the hessian infantry EM helmets I own - white or yellow fittings - have only the tip of the spike screwing off. All the officer helmets - white or yellow - have the more classic unscrewable spike with the "skirt".
As an oddity, the two hessian train EM helmets I have bear non-detachable spikes, albeit they are undoubtedly genuine. I had a total of 3 hessian train helmets, only one of which had a detachable spike...

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Post by b.loree » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:26 pm

b.loree wrote:We got into this area of collecting Hessen helmets on another thread and it was suggested by Chas that perhaps this particular state and its pickelhauben which are quite rare, deserve thier own special thread so here goes. I will approach Mr. Incredible and see if he can move relevant posts over to this new area. Here is My JR115 OR's helme:
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As far as bandeau and spike top go, the images speak for themselves. The helme also has the typical large spike support disc on the inside.
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M15 Hessian? Spike

Post by Maple Creek » Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:07 pm

Since we're on the subject of spikes for Hessian helmets, here's a spike that came off a Prussian M15 EM helmet. I assume this was a post-war mis-match, but wondered if this would have been used on a Hessian helmet? A Bavarian helmet? Both? Would the spike base have been round or cruciform?

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Post by b.loree » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:16 pm

Looks like a Hessen M15 spike top to me Mark. Check out the spikes in the examples here. Looks the same to my eyes. I dont think that it is Bavarian.
Last edited by b.loree on Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by reservist1 » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:03 pm

The spike definitely has the configuration associated with Hessian infantry and dragoon helmets, all of which would have cross bases.
Other M15 helmets using cross bases and fluted spikes of somewhat different configuration are Bavarian Chevauleger, Schwere Reiter, Field Artillery, Mecklenburg Grenadier Regiment 89 and Mecklenburg Fusilier Regiment 90.

Take a look at The Kaiser's Bunker as Tony has a very good illustration of an M15 Bavarian helmet wiith fluted spike/cross base.

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Last edited by reservist1 on Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Tony without Kaiser » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:54 pm

Here is a rare bird, a Model 1895 Leibgarde-Infanterie-Regt. (1. Großherzoglich Hessisches) Nr.115 (Darmstadt) XVIII Armee Korps pre-1897 (brass fittings) Pickelhaube for a Senior NCO Unteroffizier mit Portepee (Vizefeldwebel to Feldwebel). More photos HERE

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And the spike top:

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Here is my Model 1895 Leibgarde-Infanterie-Regt. (1. Großherzoglich Hessisches) Nr.115 (Darmstadt) XVIII Armee Korps Mannschaften (Other Ranks) Pickelhaube. More photos HERE

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And the ol' spike top:

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By far my most interesting Hessen and one my most favourite helmets, my Model 1867 Hessen Mannschaften (Other Ranks) Pickelhaube that was originally was worn by Hessisches Garde Dragoner Regt in the Franco-Preußen war of 1870-71, then worn by the same regiment when they became Dragoner Regt Nr. 23, then issued to Infanterie-Leib Regt. Großherzogin (3. Großherzoglich Hessisches) Nr.117, and then possibly issued for a final time to a Hessen line Infantry regiment. Spike is one piece. More photos HERE


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Finally for me, my Model 1915 Hessen Feld Artillerie Mannschaften (Other Ranks) Pickelhaube for 1. GroSherzogl. Hessisches Feldartill.-Regt. Nr. 25, Darmstadt XVIII. Armee-Korps. The helmet is correctly unit marked "FAR 25" and "BAX 18" on the rear visor. Yep, round spike base! More photos HERE


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Kaiser: 09 July 1997 - 12 October 2010.
Nina: 23 April 2002 - 31 July 2015.
I miss my little Noodles.

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Post by b.loree » Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:38 pm

Excellent helmets T!! This is going to be a great thread/sticky and many thanks as usual for working your computer magic aand shifting some of the previous posts over to this section of the forum. This whole forum could not happen without your techno help let alone your collector expertise. B
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Post by Tony without Kaiser » Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:13 pm

A young officer.

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Kaiser: 09 July 1997 - 12 October 2010.
Nina: 23 April 2002 - 31 July 2015.
I miss my little Noodles.

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Hessian Kokardes

Post by reservist1 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:39 pm

Kokardes for other ranks Hessian helmets seem to exist in two styles, silver plated bodies with red painted rings and white painted bodies with red painted rings.

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For those owners of Hessian silver trim helmets, IR 115, DR 23 and DR 24, is the Hessian kokarde on your helmet silver/red or white/red? There have always been questions whether the silver kokardes were issue items for all silver trim helmets, just IR 115 or were they private purchase?

Obviously, as kokardes were easily replaceable parts, both during the official use period of the helmets and in the many years of subsequent "collector manipulations", it may be difficult to determine if the silver/red kokardes were issue items for particular Hessian helmets.

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Re: Hessian Kokardes

Post by Tony without Kaiser » Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:31 pm

reservist1 wrote: For those owners of Hessian silver trim helmets, IR 115, DR 23 and DR 24, is the Hessian kokarde on your helmet.....
Can't say, going through a hideous divorce, Kaiser's Bunker is packed away. Not a button left in my display rooms... :sad3:
Kaiser: 09 July 1997 - 12 October 2010.
Nina: 23 April 2002 - 31 July 2015.
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http://www.kaisersbunker.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Post by Adler » Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:12 am

Here's my Off. Inf. Regt. Nr. 117 (after 1897)...
More pictures in a separate thread: http://www.pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5265" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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M95 Hessen Inf. Regt. 117 (na 1897) 03.jpg
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Post by b.loree » Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:58 pm

Very sweet helme adler and that wappen.....they dont get any better! I have the ORs version of this wappen and I will post a pic. B
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Post by 911car » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:42 pm

Beautiful, Adler. Here is the EM model.
Image

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Post by 911car » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:45 pm

And here is a JR115 Unteroffizier helmet.
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Post by joerookery » Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:06 pm

RJR254 Filz
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Post by Adler » Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:31 am

Aaaargh... love those Hessians...

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Post by reservist1 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:02 am

FAR 25

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Post by b.loree » Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:36 pm

Great helme R1 reminds me of of my JR116 helmet which I shall post a pic of shortly.
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Post by b.loree » Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:57 pm

A couple of pics of my Hessen Reserve Officer helme:
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Image
Note the Officer Landes kokarde is brass with red paint
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JR116

Post by b.loree » Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:17 pm

Some pics of my JR116 helme. Obviously a pre 1891 helme that was equippped with the new M91 side posts. I love these older helmets with the higher domes and heavier gauge of leather. In general, they seem to survive the passage of time in better condition. This helmet was purchased from a Butterfield & Butterfield Auction in San Fran years ago in the 90,s. Some of you older collectors may have bid on items from that fabulous collection of Napoleonic, and Imperial German items. I know Randy and Tony C. did. Chin strap is obviously a repro. Spike top does not unscrew.
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Post by joerookery » Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:49 pm

Given this huge collection of JR 115 helmets–does anyone have a unit mark I can put into the listing?

We do not have one.
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Post by joerookery » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:15 pm

Thanks to Tony we now have one!
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Post by Adler » Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:20 am

Here's another IR115 for your review gentlemen...
More pictures here: http://www.pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5273" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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M95 Hessen Leib Garde  Inf. Regt. 115  01.jpg
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Post by b.loree » Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:32 pm

Wow!! That is just fantastic. It does not get any better than that set. May I ask how one obtains matching items like those? Brian
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Post by Adler » Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:58 am

Brian, usually it takes a lot of luck to be on the right place at the right moment... To have good connections helps also a lot I guess...

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Post by rurik22 » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:16 am

Hi Bruno

I undersood Hessian are ones of your favorite. We will meet some day

115 LGR

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Post by b.loree » Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:48 pm

Super helmets Rurik. I love the chinscales on the ORs helme. Wish mine had come with those!
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Post by Schiavona13 » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:54 am

As everyone is showing there's . Her is my Off. Inf. Regt. Nr. 117

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Post by J.LeBrasseur » Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:21 am

Very nice helmets, congrats to all of you!! Still looking for my first Officer Hessian....

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Post by joerookery » Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:24 am

I want a trichter...... :-P :-P
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Post by 911car » Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:55 pm

Great helmets. Thanks to all of you. Yes, Rurik, we should meet, but not at Kube's auction this week-end.
Here is a regular Hessian infantry officer helmet (note the rare Haarbusch). A particularity though: the spike is the thickest I have ever seen on a hessian officer helmet...
Image
Image

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Post by 911car » Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:00 pm

And here is the JR115 "Konvolut" I already showed on the forum.
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Post by b.loree » Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:06 pm

I was hoping that you would post that group shot again 911, very nice indeed. Very few collectors would have such a grouping of 115s, excellent.
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Post by 911car » Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:13 pm

And a lateral view of the Hessian Train helmet (TB25) I recently found and showed on the forum. It is obviously a pre-1891 model that was revamped. Compare with Brian's JR116 helmet above.
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Post by Adler » Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:56 am

A lot of great hessian helmets gentlemen!
Here's another little group I already showed, but of which I think they also will be appreciated in this thread...

Adler

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Post by b.loree » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:19 am

A note.... To anyone who has previously posted pics of Hessen hauben please, if you are able post again here on this sticky thread which is dedicated to this family of helmets. Unfortunately, our tech Mr. Incredible is unable to move posts around from thread to thread. It makes it more convenient and interesting if we concentrate the Hessens here. Thanks again to 911 and Adler for doing so. B
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Post by Adler » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:17 am

And here's another Hessian: IR115 for Fähnrich...
For more details look here: http://www.pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 3413#33413

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M95 Hessen Fahnrich Leib Garde  Inf. Regt. 115  03.jpg
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Post by b.loree » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:57 pm

Hi Adler, beautiful helmet, beautiful frosting on that wappen. I am wondering if those scales and fittings are German silver due to the darkening of the metal? My Oldenburg dragoon officer helmets' spike is stamped 08 under the spike base and it tarnishes very quickly. I have only polished it once when I first got it.
Does anyone out there have a leather M15 from JR115 or the other Hessen Regts, ? I guess I could post my Hessen M15 with round spike base again, but I feel guilty as I have not fixed the depressed top of the shell as yet. We have seen some great filz helmes so bring on the M15s!
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Post by JR92 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:47 pm

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Post by b.loree » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:19 pm

Wow JR92...I asked for some M15s and you really hit me with your best shot. Excellent!! Thank you. Are there regimenrtal markings on any of your helmets so that we can know where they came from? That is a fantastic collection. This thread has been very productive...its like mining for gold! These helmets are so rare. However, still no M15 from JR115 mit bandeau. I wonder if such a helmet exists?? Brian
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Post by JR92 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:01 am

still no M15 from JR115 mit bandeau. I wonder if such a helmet exists??
I think "not" !

Like for GR 109.

One of my Ml 15 has inside a label with 115 marking.

May be other photos this everning.
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Post by Adler » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:13 am

Woohoo... M15's a gogo! Now I definately have to go and hunt for those beauties!
I am wondering if those scales and fittings are German silver due to the darkening of the metal?
I got this helmet in this state, but I think I'll leave it this way...

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Post by KAGGR 1870 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:49 pm

Hello
Here is my contribution about 115 helmet anatomy
http://www.pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewt ... highlight=
Regard
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Hessian EM Trichters

Post by Maple Creek » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:43 pm

Update: When I bought this trichter I wasn't sure if it was correct for my helmet having never seen one. Now I'm pretty sure it's correct. The EM trichters were not fluted like the officer versions.

Also... Does anybody know who bought the Hessian IR115 pickelhaube shell from Advance Guard Militaria? I was bummed to have missed that as it would have greatly simplified my restoration project. I might have some parts to help with the restoration of that helmet.

Mark D.

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Last edited by Maple Creek on Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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