A mysterious photo from China

I think I've found the badge on the hats, a SVC badge is shown on this page - http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/5047/SHANGFLG.html

This one looks more like the one in our photo, being a brass badge with a scroll underneath it.

Does anyone know anything more about the German contingent in the SVC, when they were formed, when they were disbanded, strengths etc?

Cheers
Chris
 
There were different badges worn by the various units in the Shanghai Volunteer Corps (SVC). The following badge was worn by a doctor assigned to the American company. The actual size of the badge, without cloth backing, is 1.4 inches (35.5mm) wide by .880 inch (22.3mm) high. Below the badge is a portion of the SVC Mobilization Manual listing the units in the corps as of 1910.

svcbadgemq4.jpg


svcbookacopyet3.jpg


While the above badge is different than the one on the hats in the photo in question, it is quite possible that each unit in the SVC wore a distinctive badge instead of the generic SVC insignia.

Reservist1
 
Hello,

here is the picture of Reinhold Holtz, who was a member of SVC around 1899! Look at the shoulderboards! I can see a crown and the letter "H" (?). For what could they stand for?

The picture was taken in Shanghai!


mlrw9d.jpg



Here a Detail of the tropical helmet.

143m79d.jpg


And another detail of the Insignia:

2dl92z7.jpg


and at least a detail of the shoulderboard:

w2exwm.jpg



The insignia on the tropical helmet looks like the one on the website of chrispaulodale:

http://student.science.nus.edu.sg/~scip9109/zxr-shanghai/shanghai.htm


Best wishes


Leutwein
 
Thank you both for you excellent input.

The Mobilisation manual is very interesting in listing two German companies, thank you Reservist.

The 1899 photograph is likewise very interesting, thank you Leutwin. He appears to wear a British tropical helmet, with the badge as you say, British gaiters and a German dark blue infantry tunic. Yes, it's possibly an "H" on the shoulder strap (as far as I know Kuerassier Regt Nr 6 was the only regualr German army unit to wear an "H" monogram?), very difficult to tell... it doesn't look similar to any imperial German shoulder strap that I know of. Can anyone else make a guess?

The rifle looks very like a British Lee Enflield, though the bayonet knot looks very German...

Anyone else got any thoughts on this amazing photo?

Cheers
Chris

PS I just found this...

"At Shanghai the Europeans built the so-called Shanghai Volunteer Corps (S.V.C.) under British control. Max Hey as an enthusiastic bicyclist, encouraged the formation of a Customs Cyclist Company (C.C.C.) as part of the S.V.C.! This company was wearing British style uniforms made of local khaki fabric and Australian styled hats, the guns and side arms were supplied by the British Army...."

...description of the uniforms of the SVC on the excellent Austro-Hungarian Army website in a biography of Maximillian Hey ( http://www.austro-hungarian-army.co.uk/biog/hey.htm ) it also includes photogrpahs of Hey in SVC uniform.

This description of the hats as "Australian styled" makes sense as the Australians worn hats with the left side pinned up (as seen in the original photo), while the Germans (in the Schutztruppe, Landespolizei and East Asian formations) usually pinned up their hats on the right.
 
Tony & Kaiser said:
Could be an "N"? Leib-Dragoner-Regt. (2. Großherzog-hessisches) Nr.24
(Darmstadt) XVIII Armee Korps
Click to expand...

Hi Tony,
Yes, that a possibility though the crown doesn't seem to match the crown of Dragoon Regt 24. Also I would expect the tunic to then have Swedish style cuffs?
Cheers
Chris
 
The rifle in the photo appears to be a British Lee Metford No1. MKII.

The following pages from the SVC Mobilization Manual list the duties assigned to the German company upon mobilization. An Addition and Amendments sheet to the manual dated June 1913 indicates that the address listed in (c) is to be changed from 12a Kiangse Road to 9a Hankow Road.

germancompanycopyds9.jpg


Reservist1
 
Chris

"This description of the hats as "Australian styled" makes sense as the Australians worn hats with the left side pinned up (as seen in the original photo), while the Germans (in the Schutztruppe, Landespolizei and East Asian formations) usually pinned up their hats on the right'.


The Australian slouch hat worn at that time (1899-1901)had the brim on the right side.The Defence Act of 1903 that established the Australian Army set that the hat be turned up on the left side.I think this was due to mounted troops wearing their ammunition bandolier over their right shoulder,meaning their rifle was slung over the left side.

Peter
 
Thanks Peter, for your clarification there. But I think "Leutwin" had dated this slouch hat photo at around 1910-12, therefore after the 1903 Act putting them on the left. Is that correct?

Curious that they changed from right to left in 1903 though, thanks for the info.

Cheers
Chris
 
yes thats right! As you can see on the backside there is a notice of "S. Exez. Admiral von Krosigk". I have marked it! From 1909 Günther von Krosigk was a (in german) "Konteradmiral (the lowest admiral rang). From 1912 von Krosigk was a "Vizeadmiral" and chief of the East Asian Cruiser Squadron (until 1913)!

So the picture must be taken in that period of 1910 and 1913!

Best wishes

Leutwein


Pic of the backside:

10d7cau.jpg
 
Thanks entirely to you guys, I've added a page on my website ( http://www.germancolonialuniforms.co.uk/ scroll down the main page and it's under "RELATED TOPICS OF INTEREST") on these German troops in the Shanghai volunteer corps. All the information and illustrations are based on what's been posted here. Please let me know if you spot any errors or have more info to add.

Cheers
Chris
 
... and there's another photo of the German Co of the SVC at the Bundesarchiv here-

http://www.bild.bundesarchiv.de/archives/barchpic/search/_1229292251/?search[view]=detail&search[focus]=1

Taken in 1913, they appear to be wearing the same uniforms as in Leutwin's original post.

Cheers
Chris
 
leutwein said:
Hello,

here is the picture of Reinhold Holtz, who was a member of SVC around 1899! Look at the shoulderboards! I can see a crown and the letter "H" (?). For what could they stand for?

The picture was taken in Shanghai!
....

Best wishes

Leutwein
Click to expand...

Over the intervening years I think that the question is answered.
The "H"stands for Heinrich, Prince of Prussia (Heinrich, Prinz von Preußen).
It is interesting that Reinhold Holtz wears a sword knot for N.C.O.

Best wishes

Claus
 
I agree that they are members of the Prinz Heinrich company SVC, in dress uniform, armed with the Lee Metford rifle. Looking at the original photos - the first soldier has German rank button on collar, at least one man a bayonet troggel can be seen. I believe this to be the only German unit to wear their hat with the left side up. Neat photos and thanks for calling this post up as I never saw it before.
 
Can anyone shed any light on this mysterious photo? A Chinese cavalry officer of some kind equipped and trained in Berlin...
 
Yes, two Chinese type dragons, one either side. There is a leather pickelhaube with the same plate in the Junckers catalogue...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top