Bavarian pickelhaube just purchased help with markings

Chris,
Pickelhauben have been worn a very long time, often till the end of 1916, and sometimes longer in some units.
The M16 was first introduced february 1916, with only very little number, only for the guys who were immediatly in the first lines. It is written in a few Regiments-Geschichte that I have read. The general introduction of the M16 in big numbers started only during the summer 1916.
Philippe
 
Hi Philippe, that is very interesting, it must have been scary only having a leather helmet for shrapnel protection.

I fed the kriegsstammrolle into A1 for a translation and was staggered how well it produced a summary column by column. I expect you can read the old writing but having it translated was amazing for me. He received two medals for bravery and was hospitalised with shell splinters 8 May 1917.

One of the medals was awarded 29 September 1918 so he returned to the war. AI suggested that there might be a second page to the Kriegsstammrolle which documents his hospitalisation and returning to the war. When you kindly got the Kriegsstammrolle details for me did you happen to see if there was a second page for him.

John Josef warn me research etc was addictive-he was right!😊
Many thanks for you continued help (and patience)
Chris
 
b.loree said:
Welcome to the world of pickelhaube Chris! We need to warn you though.....you can begin with one helmet and years later you may have 100+. Haubeitis is rampant here so beware! :)
Click to expand...
Yes Chris
Welcome to the forum, and yes Brian, is correct about collecting pickelhauben can get to be a habit. You have a great start with this one. The reinforcement to the inside is cool and not always in all helmets with the cross form on the inside. Unit marked, named and traceable are also great extra’s that one does not often found.
Best regards
John
 
Thanks John , the only problem with PH collecting is they are generally not cheap! But that is not surprising as they are all over 100 years old.
Thanks for you kind welcome.
Chris
 
argonne said:
Chris,
Pickelhauben have been worn a very long time, often till the end of 1916, and sometimes longer in some units.
The M16 was first introduced february 1916, with only very little number, only for the guys who were immediatly in the first lines. It is written in a few Regiments-Geschichte that I have read. The general introduction of the M16 in big numbers started only during the summer 1916.
Philippe
Click to expand...

That's correct. The front line troops at the start of the battle of Verdun were the first to receive a Stahlhelm. In the beginning these stayed there. So when units were relieved or rotated, the newly arrived soldiers took over the M16 helmet.
German regiments usually stayed way longer in the same sector than the French. Often only when they moved away to a sector with heavier fighting, their Pickelhaube got replaced by a Stahlhelm.

The famous Bavarian RIR 16 for example fought at the Fromelles sector for more than one and a half year. At the end of september 1916 they were sent to the Somme and it is them that they received their new M16 Stahlhelm.

Here you can see Australian and British troops, captured after the desastrous attack at Fromelles on July 19th, 1916. Both the german Infanteristen and the mounted troops can be seen still wearing the iconic Pickelhaube.

20260605_102408.jpg
 
That is astounding that they continue so long with just a leather cap. But having looked it up the British tin helmet was issued in Sept 1915 but only 50 per Battalion. Mass issue did not occur until summer 1916, so we were no better. It sort of reflects perhaps the attitude of Administrators/war chiefs to the ordinary soldier- they were just numbers! Or am I being too harsh and it was just a case of the shortage of material?
That is a very interesting photo thank you Grabenmaxx
Chris
 
Philippe very kindly provided a copy of Ancestry showing Michael Holzmann's war service etc. So I thought I would subscribe to Ancestry to get details of his post war wound (8 May 1917) service and his subsequent life. I got AI to translate both documents. However I found this record (13825) for a Michael Holzmann which has the same birthday and parents (but wife's born name is Fischl instead of Fickl) and his birth place is shown as Jetzendorf and not Immenhafen per the copy Philippe made. The war service is different but the medals are the same and the fact he was a Kanonier is the same in both.
What is going on!! Is AI making up what it can't read? I am not very good with Ancestry so any advice would be very welcome. I am very confused.🤔
Chris
 

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  • Keiegsstammrolle 13825.jpg
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When I ran it with AI the first time I did two photos one of each side on the book . This time I did it with a picture of the two pages and AI came up with Holzmann being a Railway worker from Ausberg! So I think it is AI that is having the problems. Does anyone know a more certain way to get AI to translate the old German script? Frustrating!
Chris
 
Sorry to all that I keep coming back . I have now found that a zoomed in image gets read correctly by AI . It must be if it can't read something it just guesses but doesn't tell you its a guess! I now seem to be getting sensible translations. Please ignore my last few posts made out of frustration!
Chris
 
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