Ebay Guards du Corps helmet

awozny1965

awozny1965

Active member
I found this one on ebay in France. Looks legit to me. What do you guys think? I am thinking about making an offer. Does it all look good to you guys?

www.ebay.fr

Casque à pointe, spikelhelmet, pickelaub:Garde du Corps, moidèle 1889 Troupe.WW1 | eBay

Les meilleures offres pour Casque à pointe, spikelhelmet, pickelaub:Garde du Corps, moidèle 1889 Troupe.WW1 sont sur eBay ✓ Comparez les prix et les spécificités des produits neufs et d'occasion ✓ Pleins d'articles en livraison gratuite!
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Thanks
Andreas
 
Hi Andreas,
And you, what do you think? There is abundant information on these helmets, on this forum and elsewhere. Did you do your homework? Nothing better than that. We all learned the hard way...
Always happy to help on points of detail though, if I can. Let me know if you have very specific questions.
Best wishes;
 
911car,

I thought this is what a forum like this is about, so we don't have to reinvent the wheel over and over. Get tips from more experienced collectors and guidance on what to ask, what to look out for. As I stated it looks legit to me but then again I have never seen one before. I am pretty sure there are lots of fakes out there and I have learned the hard way on other helmets. With a helmet of this price I don't want to be wrong. At least not wrong in a way that could have been easily caught and prevented by a more experienced collector. Like Wojtek told me on another question that the stitching looked wrong or the pearl ring looked off. Tips like that is what I am looking for. In books I have there are pictures of this helmet and compared to the picture it looks identical to me. But in these books you have a picture from the front and possibly another one from the side. It is the details that are not mentioned in the books or those you can't see in the picture that make all the difference.
Anyhow, thanks to your comment I learned what not to ask.
All the best.
Andreas
 
Andreas,
For me personally you can always ask for info about helmets. They can be very expensive, so better ask than get burned.
It is quite an expensive hobby collecting these.. I also learned a lot here on the forum. Which kept me from buying wrong helmets, and making wrong decisions. Sometimes you are blinded from seeing the obvious faults of them, and fall for a bad one. So better to ask people with a clear view, which sometimes fail you when you are elated, that clear view. Just like with women, I know, a strange comparison, but the effect is the same.
About that helmet, I do not know a lot about them, but the wappen on it does not look good to me. No crisp detailing, and, viewing the back of it, you see a lot of bubbles. This leads to it probably being a galvano copy. I would advise you to look at other ones here on the forum, and compare those photo's with the one in your first post.

Regards, Coert.
 
Coert, as always, you hit the target accurately.Best wishes.
coert65 said:
Andreas,
For me personally you can always ask for info about helmets. They can be very expensive, so better ask than get burned.
It is quite an expensive hobby collecting these.. I also learned a lot here on the forum. Which kept me from buying wrong helmets, and making wrong decisions. Sometimes you are blinded from seeing the obvious faults of them, and fall for a bad one. So better to ask people with a clear view, which sometimes fail you when you are elated, that clear view. Just like with women, I know, a strange comparison, but the effect is the same.
About that helmet, I do not know a lot about them, but the wappen on it does not look good to me. No crisp detailing, and, viewing the back of it, you see a lot of bubbles. This leads to it probably being a galvano copy. I would advise you to look at other ones here on the forum, and compare those photo's with the one in your first post.

Regards, Coert.
Click to expand...
 
coert65 said:
Andreas,
For me personally you can always ask for info about helmets. They can be very expensive, so better ask than get burned.
It is quite an expensive hobby collecting these.. I also learned a lot here on the forum. Which kept me from buying wrong helmets, and making wrong decisions. Sometimes you are blinded from seeing the obvious faults of them, and fall for a bad one. So better to ask people with a clear view, which sometimes fail you when you are elated, that clear view. Just like with women, I know, a strange comparison, but the effect is the same.
About that helmet, I do not know a lot about them, but the wappen on it does not look good to me. No crisp detailing, and, viewing the back of it, you see a lot of bubbles. This leads to it probably being a galvano copy. I would advise you to look at other ones here on the forum, and compare those photo's with the one in your first post.

Regards, Coert.
Click to expand...
Thanks Coert,
this is good advise especially with the bubbles in the back. I also thought that the wappen was somewhat plain looking compared to the suum cuinque of the guards regiments. I did not see the bubbles, have to check the pictures again.
 
awozny1965 said:
Thanks Coert,
this is good advise especially with the bubbles in the back. I also thought that the wappen was somewhat plain looking compared to the suum cuinque of the guards regiments. I did not see the bubbles, have to check the pictures again.
Click to expand...
Furthermore, it seems the chin scales are attached with a simple screw rather than the more fancy mechanism I can see one of the pictures in the book. I asked the seller for some paperwork, let's see what he comes back with. The biggest issue right now is the detail of the eagle in the wappen, as you pointed out. In my book one can definitely see a lot of detail in regards to the feathers while on his picture I can't see any.
 
Andreas,

Everyone here is more than happy to share their knowledge with you but it is also a little like school in that we want people to learn about pickelhaubes. When I began collecting I didn't know much and you are correct that books can't teach you every thing but they are a start. The best way for us to help you is to tell us what you see when you look at a pickelhaube as Bruno wisely has suggested. My saying "that helmet stinks" really doesn't help you identify now or in the future what's wrong with a helmet or what to look for.

So look the helmet over really closely. Look at the eagle. It is severely over polished and worn to the point where the seams are exposed. The bolts are correct for early helmets. The wappen is a repro or at least the center is, he didn't post any pictures of markings and finally that price is way too high for the condition.

I hope you see were I am pointing you in terms of how you can help us help you!

Happy Pickelhaubering!

John
 
Andreas that is absolutely not a “stunning” Kürassier helmet. When you are looking to buy a helmet of any kind, In addition to being correct, there are three things you need to have:

1. Condition
2. Condition
3. Condition

If you buy junk you own junk. Original Pickelhauben, even issued examples, are very well made, and very high quality.

So may I recommend this: as Bruno rightfully suggested, search and look at every example you can find here on this forum. However, to help you quickly, compare every image on that eBay sale to a good example, and let’s use mine.

https://www.kaisersbunker.com/dunkelblau/helmets/dbh25.htm

Compare every shot. You will see that the eBay helmet you are considering no serious collector would consider. It’s so bad, I had to take “Stunning” out of your title because that one is not. It’s awful. Where are the eagles eyes? Like an Alien. The parade eagle is not even close to the quality of an original. The Wappen is not correct as mentioned. Why is the helmet shell so small that the Kokarden are hanging down on the bottom? Do you really think a soldier would wear it like that? Why is there aged black leather on the rear tail? Personally I don’t like anything about that helmet.

This is what a quality looks like. This example below was brought back to the US by an American vet. And you can find one. They are not rare, just expensive. Be patient. Be selective, and as has been mentioned, be informed.


dbh25.jpg
 
Last edited:
JohnM said:
Andreas,

Everyone here is more than happy to share their knowledge with you but it is also a little like school in that we want people to learn about pickelhaubes. When I began collecting I didn't know much and you are correct that books can't teach you every thing but they are a start. The best way for us to help you is to tell us what you see when you look at a pickelhaube as Bruno wisely has suggested. My saying "that helmet stinks" really doesn't help you identify now or in the future what's wrong with a helmet or what to look for.

So look the helmet over really closely. Look at the eagle. It is severely over polished and worn to the point where the seams are exposed. The bolts are correct for early helmets. The wappen is a repro or at least the center is, he didn't post any pictures of markings and finally that price is way too high for the condition.

I hope you see were I am pointing you in terms of how you can help us help you!

Happy Pickelhaubering!

John
Click to expand...
Thanks John,
so do all these helmets have to have markings and the absence of markings is a proof that it is not an original? I can see the exposed seams, especially on one side. Last but not least since I have never seen one offered before so what would be a good price for a helmet like this?
Andreas
 
Tony without Kaiser said:
Andreas that is absolutely not a “stunning” Kürassier helmet. When you are looking to buy a helmet of any kind, In addition to being correct, there are three things you need to have:

1. Condition
2. Condition
3. Condition

If you buy junk you own junk. Original Pickelhauben, even issued examples, are very well made, and very high quality.

So may I recommend this: as Bruno rightfully suggested, search and look at every example you can find here on this forum. However, to help you quickly, compare every image on that eBay sale to a good example, and let’s use mine.

https://www.kaisersbunker.com/dunkelblau/helmets/dbh25.htm

Compare every shot. You will see that the eBay helmet you are considering no serious collector would consider. It’s so bad, I had to take “Stunning” out of your title because that one is not. It’s awful. Where are the eagles eyes? Like an Alien. The parade eagle is not even close to the quality of an original. The Wappen is not correct as mentioned. Why is the helmet shell so small that the Kokarden are hanging down on the bottom? Do you really think a soldier would wear it like that? Why is there aged black leather on the rear tail? Personally I don’t like anything about that helmet.

This is what a quality looks like. This example below was brought back to the US by an American vet. And you can find one. They are not rare, just expensive. Be patient. Be selective, and as has been mentioned, be informed.


dbh25.jpg
Click to expand...
Thanks Tony,

the link is truly a great resource. Knowing that the helmet is not that rare will help me next time. I just saw that one for the first time and almost went into panic mode so I could make an offer before it is being sold and gone forever. Thanks to you and some other guys here I will be better prepared next time if a helmet like this comes around. And definitely won't make an offer on the one in France. Funny enough I asked the guy for some paperwork about the helmet and he only stated that everything besides the cockades are correct.
Andreas
 
awozny1965 said:
911car,

I thought this is what a forum like this is about, so we don't have to reinvent the wheel over and over. Get tips from more experienced collectors and guidance on what to ask, what to look out for. As I stated it looks legit to me but then again I have never seen one before. I am pretty sure there are lots of fakes out there and I have learned the hard way on other helmets. With a helmet of this price I don't want to be wrong. At least not wrong in a way that could have been easily caught and prevented by a more experienced collector. Like Wojtek told me on another question that the stitching looked wrong or the pearl ring looked off. Tips like that is what I am looking for. In books I have there are pictures of this helmet and compared to the picture it looks identical to me. But in these books you have a picture from the front and possibly another one from the side. It is the details that are not mentioned in the books or those you can't see in the picture that make all the difference.
Anyhow, thanks to your comment I learned what not to ask.
All the best.
Andreas
Click to expand...
Don't take me wrong; as stressed by everybody, we are always happy to help. Enough to look at the huge amount of information that has been shared on this forum in the past 15 years or so...
Lately though, we have seen a few blunt inquiries: "Is this authentic? What is the value?" that make you feel like the forum has become a free appraisal website. As perfectly explained by John and Tony, learning by yourself is essential, and there is no shortage of accurate documentation.
As of this very helmet, and although this ebay seller is usually reliable, I fully agree with everything John and Tony wrote. Before reading his comments, my own choice of an adjective was actually the same as Tony's: awful. In addition to what has been written, chinscales should be made of tombak. The liner is unusual with these very short tongues, and looks very thin and fragile in a heavy metal helmet. An old replacement? Eagle attachment inside the shell is not correct; this large nut seems to be hand made. As mentioned by Tony, the leather lining inside the lobster tail is very unusual on a GKR or GdC helmet, but common on Garde Reiter enlisted helmets. I thought this might be a GR helmet that had lost its star...
Did the seller mention markings on the shell and eagle basis?
In sum, typically a purchase you would eventually regret.
Good luck with your search.
 
Personally, spending similar money on ebay I'd want to see it. And much prefer to buy off a reputable seller if I have apprehensions.
There's one on 'bay state military' as we speak and for the same amount but in USD. He's a great guy and it comes with a return option.
Wish you luck.
 
911car said:
Don't take me wrong; as stressed by everybody, we are always happy to help. Enough to look at the huge amount of information that has been shared on this forum in the past 15 years or so...
Lately though, we have seen a few blunt inquiries: "Is this authentic? What is the value?" that make you feel like the forum has become a free appraisal website. As perfectly explained by John and Tony, learning by yourself is essential, and there is no shortage of accurate documentation.
As of this very helmet, and although this ebay seller is usually reliable, I fully agree with everything John and Tony wrote. Before reading his comments, my own choice of an adjective was actually the same as Tony's: awful. In addition to what has been written, chinscales should be made of tombak. The liner is unusual with these very short tongues, and looks very thin and fragile in a heavy metal helmet. An old replacement? Eagle attachment inside the shell is not correct; this large nut seems to be hand made. As mentioned by Tony, the leather lining inside the lobster tail is very unusual on a GKR or GdC helmet, but common on Garde Reiter enlisted helmets. I thought this might be a GR helmet that had lost its star...
Did the seller mention markings on the shell and eagle basis?
In sum, typically a purchase you would eventually regret.
Good luck with your search.
Click to expand...
911car,
thanks for your response and I can see how you guys want to preserve the standards of the forum rather then turning it into an appraisal site. That's why I said I learned what not to ask, or at least avoid asking it a certain way :)
One really hard thing to judge is prices though and I can see that people are reaching out for help. Looking at sites like weitze or derrittmeister even readily available helmets start at around 1500 and it is not unusual to see prices for 4 to 5 thousand dollar for a helmet in good condition that is somewhat rare. And with the GdC helmet I thought it was super rare and priced great. Now I know better. Another problem is time that once you find something, you have often to act quick or it could be gone. That's where a forum like this with quick assistance becomes crucial.
Anyhow, I am a big boy and don't take things the wrong way unless I am treated disrespectfully.
All the best and thanks again.
Andreas
 
awozny1965 said:
Thanks for the advise. Never heard of them but will check it out.
Click to expand...
Everything that was pointed out to be a flaw with the other helmet this helmet doesn't have. The eagle has eyes, there are markings, the cockades have the right size, the nut looks correct, the Wappen has the needed detail and so on. An awesome helmet and better priced than the flawed one. A big shoutout to the guys that answered my post from saving me from myself!
 
awozny1965 said:
Everything that was pointed out to be a flaw with the other helmet this helmet doesn't have. The eagle has eyes, there are markings, the cockades have the right size, the nut looks correct, the Wappen has the needed detail and so on. An awesome helmet and better priced than the flawed one. A big shoutout to the guys that answered my post from saving me from myself!
Click to expand...
Did you buy the one from Bay State Military? Just curious. Looks really nice.

Peter
 
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