Filz

Beautiful helmet Karel; and my favourite service, Artillerie! :love10:

Can you flip the liner up? look for stitching holes where the liner would have been sewn around the inside circumference? Is the cut around the bottom of the felt under the visors of the shell perfect and identical all the way around? Or are there signs that the visors were trimmed off?
 
Perfect mark for a Bekleidungs Instandsetzung! Definitely a repair job marking. Thank you for posting this great example. :bravo:
 
There are some articles from the Gesellschaft für Heereskunde on this, I had summarized a few informations before the big crash but the thread is lost now. From what I see at a glimps: Beginning in Feb. 1906 trials of lined helmets were done, which are today often mixed up with Ostasien helmets. These were similar to the Ostasien helmets, but with a few differences: the lining was made of cotton, not felt, and the helmet had a rear spine. The detachable spike had a new shape with oval vent holes. Finally, the rear visor was made so that it could be flipped up (the rear spine was separated in two segments).

Trialling units were the Lehr-infantrie-Bataillon, and one battailon of Gren. Reg. Nr. 3 and Inf. Reg. Nr. 145. Corresponding tschakos were given to Jäger Batl. Nr. 3 and 5.

Later on more trials with other helmet types were conducted but these were all leather types. Finally in Feb 1913 a long report was written listing all details of the tested helmets, and concluding that no significant improvements had been found that justify a change.

These pictures are from a helmet at Weitze's a few years ago, the period photograph is mine:

mod1906_1.jpg
mod1906_3.jpg


mod1906_2.jpg
 
Tony without Kaiser said:
I would expect that with the Tschako-edge, the visor would be thick fibre. You say it is leather?
Regarding the Ostasiatisches Besatzungsbrigade Pickelhaube, the front visor is fiber and the neck visor leather. Additionally, the helmet body is leather covered felt. Consequently, it is not a Filzhelm per se. It owes its kinship to the Versuchshelm Model 1905/06, or, for that matter, most officer Tschako.
 
And then of course there were the lacquered felt helmets as war ersatz, made to resemble normal leather helmets as well as possible.

lacquered_felt_3.jpg


lacquered_felt_2.jpg
 
Regarding the Ostasiatisches Besatzungsbrigade Pickelhaube, the front visor is fiber and the neck visor leather. Additionally, the helmet body is leather covered felt.

Ditto with the Ostasiatisches example below. In this case, the liner is cloth and the spike base is fixed to the helmet.

My apologies for the terrible exterior shots. I will take better ones soon.

Hans

Ostasien.jpg

Ostasienside.jpg

Ostasienint.jpg

Ostasienbrim.jpg
 
Or is it both?

I think it is both. That is the only way we can see in one place all these different models. Did you see the liner on that Asian job? I am learning a lot. :thumb up:
 
Are we sure the helmet with the oil cloth liner and elongated vents in the spike neck is East Asian Expeditionary Corps and not one of the various circa 1906 experimental configurations?

Reservist1
 
Beautiful helmet Karel; and my favourite service, Artillerie!

Can you flip the liner up? look for stitching holes where the liner would have been sewn around the inside circumference? Is the cut around the bottom of the felt under the visors of the shell perfect and identical all the way around? Or are there signs that the visors were trimmed off?

The cut is perfect, as done by a machine and there are no holes of previous stitching visible. So there are no signs of a previous visor or neckguard at all. The neckguard is made out of pressed paper or cartboard... certainly not pressed leather. Maybe that can help to determine wether the helmet was made this way or repaired?

Adler

 
reservist1 said:
Are we sure the helmet with the oil cloth liner and elongated vents in the spike neck is East Asian Expeditionary Corps and not one of the various circa 1906 experimental configurations?
My thoughts exactly. The M1900 Ostasiatisches Besatzungsbrigade Helm was a very specific animal. The excellent Kraus - Müller reference provides numerous, excellent photographs of officer/other ranks M1900s made by Hoffmann, Wunderlich et al. on pages 484-495, and none is equipped with a fixed spike base or oilcloth liner.

Chas
 
Adler said:
3. Was there a production run of leather or fiber visored filz helmets in 1914 or later? Or were all of the leather looking visors 1905 reissues or repair jobs?
4. Can we show various examples?
A very interesting discussion here! Anyway here are some (old) pics of my felt helmet with leather visor. If I follow everything here correctly, this should be a repaired felt helmet with leather visor and not a helmet that was factory produced this way.
Maybe the markings on the back visor can determine wether it's a repair or not...

Adler
Karel, I can't see this as being a repaired helmet. I mean, why bother? Adding a new liner and visors, front visor trim, and rear spine to what, a felt dome? It would be far more expedient to throw what little survived away. Regardless of the mark, whatever it implies, I believe this Helm was purpose built.

Exceedingly nice, by the way. =D>

Chas
 
From Bunny to Brow is a series of short industrial films from the premier Australian hatter, Akubra. These same processes would have been used in the manufacture of felt Pickelhauben. I think it is worth a look:

http://www.akubra.com.au/creation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And, a precise description of rabbit fur felt:

http://www.akubra.com.au/create_making.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
There seems to be some sort of disconnect here between the modern fur felt and the helmets that were covered in filz.
The modern statements all seem to indicate a high resistance to water. Yet everything I have from the early tests on say there was a major problem with water.

The site that Brad gave us talks about poor quality wool felt that had water problems. Does that mean that these helmets were primarily wool? Primarily poor quality? A lot different than today's manufacture? Try though I may I been unable to find a price differential between rabbit and wool. I did find something that said the test results written in 1913 included a complaint about filz helmet longevity due to damage from moths.

Karel, I can't see this as being a repaired helmet. I mean, why bother? Adding a new liner and visors, front visor trim, and rear spine to what, a felt dome? It would be far more expedient to throw what little survived away. Regardless of the mark, whatever it implies,... .

I don't agree with this as we really do not know what was repaired. It could have been something significantly minor.
 
Given the miserable, wet conditions in the trenches, it seems unlikely that a felt hat of either fur or wool felt would fare well for long.
Rabbit fur felt may not be as hardy as beaver fur felt:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/172409-Another-fedora-care-question" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
joerookery said:
The site that Brad gave us talks about poor quality wool felt that had water problems.
The site Brad gave us, "NogginTops," is an online retailer. Joe, if you scroll down that page link a bit farther, you can read the answer to the FAQ: "How water-repellent are felt hats?" Akubra is a hat manufacturer. In fact, their product is sold by NogginTops. Furthermore, they have been supplying the following model, "Military (Open Crown)" to the Australian Defense Forces for nearly a century:

http://www.akubra.com.au/products_special.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Aussies went to war with the slouch hat, the Kiwis with the "Lemon Squeezer," and the Yanks with the Hat, Service, M-1911. These were all made of felt. I'm certain all were subjected to military trials for suitability in the field. If the Germans failed to produce a felt helmet that was water repellent, which I sincerely doubt, then they didn't know what the hell they were doing. The Akubra videos clearly show that shellac and sanding are key steps in manufacture. Not only would shellac stiffen the helmet against losing its shape, it would also increase water repellency. These steps are not "modern." They were developed over centuries.

If Akubra doesn't impress you, take a look at Stetson. They manufactured the premier M-1911 (and my Boy Scout hat for that matter):

http://www.stetson.com/history?view=history" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your article provides many exceptional period photos of true felt Helme and Tschako (even a Tschapka!), but the discussion here, completely fails to address them. Instead, Ostasiatisches Besatzungsbrigade, Versuchshelm Model 1905/06, and other experimental helmets are identified as Filzhelme, when they are actually Lederhelme at their core. In my opinion, only Robert's black lacquered Filz Bavarian and Karel's Prussian M15 qualify as (hybrid) Filzhelm.

This is what I consider to be an archetypal Filzhelm:

P1010292.jpg


Unlike Karel's truly amazing helmet, which is constructed exactly as a Lederhelm, the liner is not folded and wrapped around the bottom of the crown and sewn in place prior to attaching the visors. Instead, it is folded and sewn inside the crown as the "visors" are an integral part of the crown:

P1010294.jpg


Now, to throw you a curve, this is another Filzhelm:

P1010877.jpg


P1010875.jpg


P1010879.jpg


Addressing one of your questions regarding the relative cost of Wollfilz v. Haarfilz, let's consider the logisitics. Rabbits are rather small, must be billeted in hutches, require specialized feed, and must be skinned for their fur. Sheep are large, graze in meadows, are shorn of their fleece, and live to produce more wool. I think Wollfilz is the hands down winner in the cost department.

I know my gut instincts (Lost Skeleton Wisdom?) count for nothing around here, but when commercial industry has to retool quickly for military production, things are inherently problematic. I would argue (as do you in your article) that Filzheme were made by the German equivalents of Akubra and Stetson (I doubt there was a "Springfield Armory" for Filz). In fact, you have already identified Firma Bruno Sturm. Producing a felt helmet would require additional steps in blocking, cutting, and finishing not required by a conventional hat. The felt helmets in my collection vary widely in mils (thickness; specifically one thousandth of an inch). The neck peak can be easily measured with a micrometer. Thicker mills are heavier, stronger, and stiffer. I'm certain the initial product was characterized by lack of experience, urgency in delivering a quota, and overhead. Related to overhead would be the less than ethical practice of cutting corners to increase profit margins. What military or civilian contractor hasn't been accused of this? After all, contracts are usually awarded to the low bid. Shave off a mil or two and save a bundle on raw material. If the thing falls apart in the rain, blame it on the other fellow. The benighted taxpayer foots the bill. These were only meant to last until Lederhelm production caught up with the needs of the expanding army. Furthermore, I'm certain the German General Staff were appalled by the concept of Filzhelme from the start and had no incentive to be generous in their formal appraisal.

For what it's worth.
 
This was designed to create a discussion about filz.

That is all.

Joe, if you scroll down that page link a bit farther, you can read the answer to the FAQ: "How water-repellent are felt hats?" Akubra is a hat manufacturer. In fact, their product is sold by NogginTops.

I did that when the links were posted. But I only found this statement in one site. "....though there are a host of poor quality wool felt hats out there that fall apart when they get wet...."
I make no normative judgment about any specific hat maker. I just wanted to know why the letters from the subordinate commands were all in agreement about water. It did not seem to me to be quite as prima facie as it could be.

In my opinion, only Robert's black lacquered Filz Bavarian and Karel's Prussian M15 qualify as (hybrid) Filzhelm.
Good opinion and discussion - perhaps we should be more specific when using language about filz. Karel's example certainly hints towards a 1914/1915 production run.

I guess your last paragraph reinforces the thought that these were poor quality. I still would like to find a price. There seems to be a price differential readily at hand between the different types of metal ersatz helmets but the only numbers I could find compared filz to metal not between rabbit and wool.

Thanks for posting your examples. There is a lot of information in the archives about cloth covered cork. But nothing that I can remember about cloth covered filz.
 
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