Garde du Korps

poniatowski

Active member
Here are some detail shots I took,

The eagle:



Detail of the face:



(more to come)

The base. Remember, there's just a square nut and washer in place of the wing nut, not worth photoing.







The tail:



More in the next post

:D Ron
 

poniatowski

Active member
A few rough spots:

The legs show file marks:



Soldering by the wing roots:



THESE areas look very suspicious to me.



I just love tearing m'self a new arse hole, but if we can all learn from this…

:D Ron
 

poniatowski

Active member
Here are more. If you look at the re-soldered posts on the back of the plate, as well as the extra holes in the helmet, you can understand why I'm extremely suspicious of this as a parts helmet. If I'm right, I actually wouldn't mind converting it back to a 6K helmet, since that regiment is my favorite. :)

Frist, another close-up of the head.



Now the wappen:





And finally the extra holes in the body of the helmet:




:D Ron
 

poniatowski

Active member
poniatowski said:
Here are more. If you look at the re-soldered posts on the back of the plate, as well as the extra holes in the helmet, you can understand why I'm extremely suspicious of this as a parts helmet. If I'm right (which I'm sure I am), I actually wouldn't mind converting it back to a 6K helmet, since that regiment is my favorite. :)

Frist, another close-up of the head.



Now the wappen:





And finally the extra holes in the body of the helmet:




:D Ron
 

Dragoner08

New member
Ron , it is very hard for me to determine your eagle in the pictures.

I think, that the base plate is ok. The screws are correctly. But the eagle worries me. Look please at the marked areas ! These areas give me problems.

The face of the eagle is usually very clean. But here is not the case.

The wing tips appear to be a little short. This eagle I would scrape with a steel needle in an inconspicuous place !

The emblem think is original . But the threaded rods have been added. The silver plating is burnt ... it's not ok .

It is very hard for me to say something on to these images.

Can you please still images from the inside of the helmet to adjust ?

Gruß Gunnar
 

poniatowski

Active member
Thanks much!
Which part of the inside of the helmet do you need photos of? The liner isn't in the best of shape, so I don't go poking around in there a lot.
I'll also take photos of the wing tips from the bottom or top so you can see the true contour.

Thanks again!

:D Ron
 

poniatowski

Active member
Okay, well, I scratched it and there's only sliver below. I'm not sure yet. I'll have to take it out into the daylight to be sure. I'm still thinking it's a replica eagle.



Here's a better photo of the wing contour.




:D Ron
 

poniatowski

Active member
Okay, I took a look at the eagle under bright white light and there is brass showing through the silver on the wings, so that's a copy / fake. The star wasn't original to the helmet, so it's all parts thrown together. I don't think it's worth discussing the thing any more. The only thing good I can say is that the person who sold it to me thought it was 100% good and back in the 1980's the references weren't what they are today. So, it was fun to think it was all good, but I started to have doubts ten or more years ago, when I saw some originals up close in Germany.
A nice display piece.
Thanks for all of you help on this, it really puts my mind to rest knowing it's not up to snuff as I'd suspected.

:D Ron
 

Dragoner08

New member
Ok Ron , I'm sorry for you.

Did you have to pay a lot of money ?

I like the bottom plate. The helmet also looks good. It could be a 6th Cuirassier really.

Gruß Gunnar
 

Arran

Member
I think it would be worth a careful restoration, filling the extra holes and replacing the eagle with a spike. Original silver plated brass eagle do exist- the replica "glavano" eagles I've seen have had a copper finish beneath the silver plating...
 

poniatowski

Active member
Arran said:
I think it would be worth a careful restoration, filling the extra holes and replacing the eagle with a spike. Original silver plated brass eagle do exist- the replica "glavano" eagles I've seen have had a copper finish beneath the silver plating...

Which I think to be true as well and what has me scratching my head a bit. This eagle is silver over a very pale brass alloy, which we'd have called 'nu-gold' in the art metals class. So, there must have been some replicas made in this manner as well... or would there have been plated war-time eagles? I dunno. It seems not according to Dragoner's never ever ever and I'll take his word for it.
I agree that converting this back to 6 K officer would be the way to go and wouldn't be difficult and I do have the metal-working skills to fill holes without undue difficulty. I just need to find the parts. Like I said, I'd probably enjoy the helmet more that way.

As I tell my students, this is a good example of a bad example, which is just as valuable to learning about things as a perfect example (Karel's wonderful eagle).

:D Ron
 

poniatowski

Active member
Okay, just a few more photos of details so others can see:

The bottoms of the talons / feet:



You can see a brass / nu-gold scrape in the circle. ("Nu-gold" is a yellower alloy of brass that is less prone to tarnish. I say this because we used this a lot when I taught are metals and this looks like it.)
These are obviously castings. Would that be right for an original as well? I've never seen the bottoms of an original's talons.

The top of the head, crown removed:



And, the crown:



To me, the crown looks good / original. There's some gilding (pale yellow) on it. However, any comments are welcome. :)

Okay, now I'm done. It's back in the case and looks good even though it's been exposed for what it is. Now, when I have some cash, I'll search for the 6K happen and officer style spike.

:D Ron


And…. a tank. Because I like tanks. :greentank:
 

Dragoner08

New member
It is really not easy to judge something on images . The crown looks good for me . But when the base material is made of brass , which is a sign of a new production at the eagle.

The whole casting beads also suggest

Gruß Gunnar
 

poniatowski

Active member
Dragoner08 said:
It is really not easy to judge something on images . The crown looks good for me . But when the base material is made of brass , which is a sign of a new production at the eagle.

The whole casting beads also suggest

Gruß Gunnar

I agree. How new would that be? 1970's at the latest.

Here's what I'm seeing: A silver plated brass eagle, which can't be right. The beading on the face is suspicious. To me (having worked with metals in both jewelry and welding / brazing) the small beads look like spatter from brazing or soldering the brass. The back of the plate has had the posts re-soldered in a very sloppy fashion, indicating that it wasn't done by the military or a helmet dealer / manufacturer, so has been messed with and its placement on the helmet isn't correct.

Next week: weigh the eagle. I would be willing to bet it comes in well over 500g, but I don't have a way to do this without bringing my gram scale from work. So I'll do that and it will probably settle this once and for all! :)

So, the feet are not cast on originals? I'm trying to get this all sorted in case I'm ever wealthy enough to purchase one at today's prices. I'm wondering about this because Richard's eagle also looks to have cast feet and a brass base metal (evident on the foot photo). Maybe he could weigh in here?

:D Ron
 

richesz28

Member
Hi Ron,

I have purchased the eagle you mentioned for a very fair price and am waiting for it to arrive. I looked at as many as I could find on the internet and have seen several in person. I believe it's an original piece, but I have to wait until it's in my hands. I do know the weight is 400 grams, though, that is without the base and crown. It should arrive in the next week or so and I will update this post after I get it.

I have an original eagle for my GdC but it is heavily damaged and virtually irreparable. That's why I was interested in this one. My original eagle is made of pewter and someone painted it gold with black feet and eyes. Looks horrible but it is a real one. See picture below. The photo only shows a small part of the damage. The wing is folded almost 180 degrees near the tail where it meets the body and as the picture shows the wing is split in half and bent. I've contemplated a variety of fixes for it over the past couple of years and cannot find an economic way to repair it. It was more feasible to get a replacement eagle if I could find one. I think (hope) I got lucky. With the new eagle on the way I can work toward restoring the rest of the helmet. It needs a liner and some minor metal massaging but is in pretty good condition.





Richard
 

richesz28

Member
I received the parade eagle to replace my crushed one (see photos in the earlier part of this thread). I spent a couple of hours looking at it though a magnifying glass trying to spot pits, splatters, or any other obvious things that might indicate a reproduction. I couldn't find anything so I am relatively confident of its originality. It's not perfect as there are a few dings, some finish loss, etc., but my helmet isn't perfect either. Pretty good match really. :D

I did, however, find one thing of note on the bottom of the right wing. There is a number "057" stamped on the wing and a small makers mark or hallmark next to the number. I haven't seen this before and was wondering if anyone has come across such a thing. My guess is it's a production number similar to those found on some metal helmet shells below the spike or wappen. If anyone has another theory please comment. Also, if anyone can identify the mark to the right of the number please let me know. I can't determine if it's a letter or a symbol. I spent some time searching German silver marks and there are a couple of thousand of them. It's the proverbial needle in a haystack. Looking forward to any comments or help with identification.

 

poniatowski

Active member
My guess would be that it's an issue number to go with helmet 57? However, this would most likely have had to been put on during production, so maybe it is a style number?

:D Ron
 
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