Gas Warfare

Hans
I have ben doing alot of reading on the gas topic lateley and had noticed report's by Canadian and brittish notes on German gas casualties. The German's did not well prepare thier troops in rear area's or had a casual attitude for gas equipment enforcemnet . I think it was the soldier will police himself attitude , as apposed to brittish standard's of his officer's and NCo's would police policy.
Mark
 
Sorry for the delay in responding Mark. I have company over from Germany, and I'm only at my computer sporadically.

You bring up an interesting point there about the policing of soldiers, which reminds me of the difference in initiative allowed to the Officers and men of the countries involved. Its a topic I've been very interested in for quite a while. Were the British and Canadian reports you mention from a particular battle, or just a general overview? That soldiers were occasionally caught unprepared by a gas attack doesn't surpise me in the least, and Ernst Juenger recalls in his book "Storm of Steel" how one wretch was caught without his mask, and had to sit huddled around a stove with his eyes tightly shut (or wraped up) sucking air through a spare filter.
 
I have read that the Brittish had set up a Gas section and educational school . They also has Gas section's very early these has NCO's and officer's attached to Battaliion Brigade , Divisinal and Army level's . They studied Gas casialities from both sides , but they were there to asses threat level . Amungst thing's.
There is a good book that has come out in the last couple years "No Where to Run , The use of gas warfare for offensive operation's and Defensive operation's of the CEF." .
Mark
 
Hey Hans,
I am sorry to be slow in adding a few other gas masks to this thread, fisrt is my US SBR (small bax resperator)
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next is my British SBR, this example was issued to an American soldier.
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The easiest way to tell the differance between the British and American mask is by the elbow that connects the hose to the face mask, the American version has an elbow that makes a smooth transition, at about a 45 degree angle. The carrying bag has lift the dot snaps.
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The British version has more of angular tube that is 90 degrees and the carrying bag has standard snap closures.
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Here is an example of the French ARS17 mask, it uses a filter similar to the German masks.
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Here is an example of the Belgian ARS17, it is based on the German Lederschutzmaske, and may be made from a German mask, the filter is the same as the French filter, although they are similar to the German filter, they are not interchangable.
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Best wishes
Gus
 
Gus
nice collection of Mask's. The brittish bag also has a different snap . minor point. Cliff picked up a similar looking mask to your Belgian legdermaske , it has a valve and the filter is not really close to the Geramn filter. I was under the impression that France and Belguim captured alot of the Ledger maske they used them.
I will have to get a pic of the museum's PH helmet now just for the thread.
Mark
 
Hey Mark,
You are right, the British mask bag has a leather tab that engages a metal stud to shorten the strap for the ready position, where the American (OK, US) bag strap has a bras claw that hooks into a buckel. You are also right that the French and Belgian masks have and exhale valve, and it is true that the filters are not totally like the German filters, but they are about the same size and are changed in the same manner. I have seen a period photo of a Belgian soldier with and unaltered German Ledermaske, there are some people who believe that the leather Belgian masks that we encounter are actually post war, but I do not know for sure.
As far as the PH helmet goes, do not waste time sending a photo, just send the helmet, I would love to have an example, as they are very few and far between.
Best wihses
Gus
 
Amazing collection Gus and great info. I never realized the possibility that the Belgian leather masks could be post war. Same debate as with the German valved M18 Ledermasken.
 
A former curator took 1 of the 2 we has to a show in Chicago ( I think MAx) , and traded it for his personal gain and a few bobles for the museum . I was furious when i discoverd he had done this , it was almost 20 years ago , but thay were rare then .
The buttons on the flap on the SBR should be different the US should have pop the dot , and the brittish has plain or pebbled button's same as the ones on the 08 webbing . Canada used both as we did not make any gas equipment of our own . I have to take pics of the 2 Gummi mask cans i have they have 2 different top's .1 has a latch closing and the other has a pull open top.
Cliff N has a book i was given put out by a US officer about the Study of Gas used in WW1 and how it was used. I think it was for seriuos study as it has some chemical breakdown's of different gas. It was put out in the late 20's . It actually show's all Armies and different battles , how they used the gas and how it was effective or not.
Mark
 
This topic is really interesting, I would like to give my small contribution, with my modest collection of gas masks .
I begin with the first series of German masks.
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This is one of the Austro-Ungarian Gas Masks.
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Thanks for your wonderful contribution Ardito. I'm not sure if you and I define the word 'modest' in the same way. Stunning collection. The first Gummimaske you show; is it the 1st model M15 Gummimaske? The mask's filter attachment plate is definately wider than the Rahmenmaske's. I'm also interested in knowing more about the filter on the GM 17 two pictures down from the first Gummimaske, the one which still has the seal. It looks different to the ones I've seen so far. Is it an 11-C-11?

Hans
 
Hey Ardito,
I agree with Hans, that is a fine collection. I especially like you Austrian impression.
Best wihes
Gus
 
Great pics Ardito, thanks. In regards to your pictures comparing the 2 gummimasken, I can't remember if the earlier model on the left is the Bandmaske or Linienmaske, maybe someone can clarify that for me. It is the version generally referred to simply as the "Maske" in the instruction discs that came with the cans, while the mask shown on the right hand side of your pictures was referred to specifically as the "Rahmenmaske". The instructions stated that the Gummimaske straps were to be pulled only as far as the rear top of the head (bis auf den Haarwirbel ziehen), while the Rahmenmaske straps were pulled down as far back on the lower head as possible (moeglichst weit nach hinten-unten ziehen).

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Can anybody I.D. these gas mask cans for me? They are from a photo of the same soldaten gruppe, and I am clueless when it comes to German Gas Masks. What year were they first issued?






 
Hey George,
To me they look like the M1916 can for the M1915 Mask, introduced sometime in 1916.
Gus
 
I managed to add another mask to my collection, it is nothing special on it's own, being a common US made SBR, the bag is in rather tough shape, and sadly, the regimental marking is partially lost, but the mask itsself is in rather good shape. The thing that makes this interesting, for me, is it was worn by a man born in a small southern Idaho town where he passed away in 1965. Idaho veteran's groupings are rare due to the small population of Idaho in 1918. C. J. Smith served with the 145th Field Artillery Regt, which was made up of Southern Idaho and Northern Utah boys, and was part of the Utah National Guard, his helmet has a 145 above the red crossed cannons, the M1917 overcoat, has a hand made 40th "Sunshine" Division patch, and a single overseas service stripe.
charlesjosephsmith2gf5.jpg

Best wishes
Gus
 
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