Landwehr officers shako 1860

Hi Joe

You aren't greedy at all, if I had been thinking I would have included those images in the first place. :geek:

The silk lining is not new in my opinion. It is sewn to the top edge of the sweatband and being silk, has begun to deteriorate and has torn away from a portion of the band. A similar black silk (I presume) lining may be seen in the Landwehr Tschako of Sergio Semino's, although his has a fingered style sweatband/liner.

Can't really offer an opinion on the calling card, its there, and that is what it says :-k The book Deutsch-Franzosischer Kreig 1870-71 Verlust-Liste does use the abbreviation Lieut. for rank identification. I'll include a photo of the card as well.

Larry
 
Hi Joe

Here are some additional photos of the 1860 Tschako. I looked through the Rang-Listen that I have and found two Landwehr officers with the last name of Fritz in the years 1866, 1874, 1875 and 1897. The man in the 1866 Rang-Liste served with the Ost.Prues. LW Rgt Nr.5 and does not appear in the 1869 list. The LW officer in 1874, 1875 & 1897 was with the 2nd Bat. Hannover Landwehr Nr.77. In addition he was awarded the EK2 and was a Hauptmann in 1897, he does not appear in the 1869 Rang-liste. There were three other officers with that last name, two from Baden and a third in the IR 46 who also appears in the 1866, 1869, 1874 & 1875 Rang-Listen. He also was awarded the EK2. Honestly I expected many more officers with that last name, go figure
shako1h.jpg


This shows the two brass side buttons removed from the helmet, the edges are knurled on both pieces making for a better grip for removal or tightening. The chinstrap was held in the "closed" position by two small straps or loops, one of which was broken, and the simple expedient of slipping it through the metal buckle was used. I will try and give this little strap a repair so it will sit properly on the Tschako.
shako2.jpg


The final image shows the side profile of the helmet and the simple hole through the leather for mounting of the screw attachment.
shako3.jpg


Hope this helps..

Larry
 
Larry,

Thank you very much! :D :D The trouble is I don't know what I don't know. I understand what their officers after the 1888 Wehrordnung. I just don't know about 1866...... even the name tag is quite surprising, but that is using the post-1888 system. I have been resisting this, but it looks like I want to buy the general staff study on the 1870 war. Franco-Prussian Landwehr....... :p :p
 
My pleasure Joe, I was able to learn something too, maybe even narrowed down the identity of the officer who wore this old helmet down to two men.

But yet the answer for the chinstrap question isn't resoved either. Maybe it was a choice the officer could make for wearing something more comfortable in the field, although the bright chinscales were an instant rank/command recognition feature in the midst of black powder smoke. Who knows...

Buy the General Staff set Joe, it's great. :faroah:

Larry
 
Hi Joe

Just picked this CDV up from the post office, shows a nice clear image of an officer with his Landwehr Tschako bedecked with a leather chinstrap. I really like the legs on the photographers table too... talk about wood carving talent, wow.

The backmark on the CDV shows a Prag(ue) photographer so this image may date to the 1866 fracas with Austria.

See you at the SOS

Larmo

hpqscan0001v.jpg


hpqscan0001d.jpg
 
Thanks for bumping this post Larmo. I seemed to have overlooked it. Marvellous read over an Earl Grey and some Tim Tams.
 
I just found this! A short look at your picture brought my eyes to the field badge. That is not bullion.?!?!

I found this picture that I have had.


ps942 by joerookery, on Flickr

Too blurry to make sense of the field badge however, the officer is wearing a leather chin strap–yes I know this is a Hessian helmet but it is all that I have found so far. On the back all it says is Crown Prince Wilhelm. Clearly he is not in the picture but perhaps his presence is the occasion for their gathering.


ps942b by joerookery, on Flickr
 
You're right Joe....good catch, I didn't pick up on that either on the initial go round. Pretty clear the officer's tschako has a leather chinstrap in your photo.
L
 
Joe

But my limited understanding is that the Feldwebel and Vizefeldwebel did not have the officer field badge.
Click to expand...

Yes, they did. Please see below from the Reglement über die Bekleidung und Ausrustungen der Truppen im Frieden from 30 April 1868 and in particular the last three lines of Para 2.

Regards
Glenn

feldzeichen.jpg
 
Glennj said:
Yes, they did.
Click to expand...

Glenn, does that refer only to Troops that wore Tschako? But they mention Attila and Ulanka in the last para. I see it mentions they wore the Unteroffizier mit Portepee Kokarde and describes it. Nice. :thumbright:

Larry. Your 1860 Garde Tschako..... :protest: Want want want....
 
Tony,

please see the first line: Die Feldwebel und Wachtmeister aller Truppentheile. This is from the detailed overview of the Ulanen. Please see column one.

Regards
Glenn

ulanen.jpg
 
Tony, glad you liked it...I like'm too :D

I've been waiting for an opening to put this photo in here, hopefully this fits the spirit of the thread.

Larry

jager2.jpg
jager3.jpg

jager4.jpg
 
Larry

The LW officer in 1874, 1875 & 1897 was with the 2nd Bat. Hannover Landwehr Nr.77. In addition he was awarded the EK2 and was a Hauptmann in 1897, he does not appear in the 1869 Rang-liste.
Click to expand...

That was Sek.-Lieut. Johann Hermann Heinrich Gustav Fritz. He was still a Sek.-Lieut. der Reserve in Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 77 at the time of the award of his EK2. He transfered into Landwehr service in 1873/74 in II./2. Hannoversches Landwehr-Regiment Nr. 77, the later Landwehrbezirk Celle.

Sek.-Lieut. d.R.:15.8.70
Prem.-Lieut. d.L.: 13.1.80
Hptm. d.L.: 22.7.88 B

He was still serving as a Landwehr officer up to his death in 1906 and was a Landwirt in Ahlden Kreis Fallingbostel.

Regards
Glenn
 
Glenn, that's just wonderful, much appreciated Sir. As they say in the land of the hula skirt "mahalo nui loa" dpeng

Larry
 
Glenn,

Do you have a copy of this AKO??

A.K.O. 8.2.1900-Officers were allowed the use of the chinscales instead of the leather chinstrap.
Click to expand...

Francis and I are looking for it in dead earnest. I do not have a 1900 stuff however.
 
Joe

where is the quote from? The only A.K.O. of that date pertaining to clothing published in the Armee-Verordnungsblatt relates to the Überzug of the Landwehr Infantry.

Regards
Glenn
 
Glenn,

It came from an e-mail. and I believe it is attributed to Deutsche Offiziershelme aus der Kaiserzeit-Band 1" by J. Hilsenbeck unfortunately I cannot find my copy–I need Mike Kelso to clean up my office.

I do have this picture of that AKO with the same date but as you said there is nothing about chin straps.

AKO_00.jpg
 
Joe

Yes, the statement is in Hilsenbeck, Volume 1 Page 211.

Now, I am going to take issue with Herr Hilsenbeck and provide a quote from the Dienst-Vorschriften des königlich Preußischen Armee, Zweiter Theil, 2. Abteilung: I. Anzug of 1879:

Kr.-Min. Mil.-Oek.-Dep. v. 28 Novbr. 1860 (Extract) - My translation:

The choice of whether to wear shakos of either leather or cloth (as per the Jäger Battalions), is given to the officer corps of Landwehr Battalions, Instead of chin straps, the officers wear yellow (gelbe) infantry chin scales.

I shall dig deeper.

Regards
Glenn
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top