Lost Skeleton’s Guide to the Pickelhaube Helmbezug

[chrispaulodale]

Hello folks,

Our good friend Peter H posted this photo on the AHF. I thought it belonged here as it is the only time I've seen the East Asians wearing a cover, even more exciting as they have numbers on them... 5th East Asian Inf Regt.

The photo is from http://www.kopfwelten.org/kp/personen/kessler/

... it's just a shame we can't blow up the photo an examine the stitching

BTW That last conversation about stitching was great to a point, but thanks Lost Skeleton for putting everyone straight with some educated thoughts!

Cheers
Chris

 

[joerookery]

We have seen patches on covers before however, this seems different to me. Patch applied with numbers perhaps covering other numbers?


ps948 by joerookery, on Flickr


ps948b by joerookery, on Flickr

 

[emilysoft11]

Very interested in.

 

[RoyA]

I'd like to congratulate Chas for this suberb exposé; thank you Chas!

 

[RoyA]

Here is an exceedingly rare Probe (sealed sample) Mannschaften Überzug mit Manöverband.
The tag is untampered with; the twine loops around the Manöverband and through the side of the überzug.

 

[RoyA]

 

[Lost Skeleton]

Incredible specimen, Roy! :love10: :thumbright:

Friend "Cousette" need doubt no longer… :sign7:

 

[J.LeBrasseur]

Wow, that is a great piece!

Way to go Roy!

James

 

[Gustaf]

Yes, but has the wax been carbon dated? This is a very nice example, Probe items are a one in a thousand if not rarer.
Best
Gus

 

[Cousette]

Incredible specimen, Roy! :love10: :thumbright:

Friend "Cousette" need doubt no longer… :sign7:

I doubt more and more....

I have found some of the FR73 uberzug in germany, and very discount (amazing that a very rare item in discount....)

One have been sold, in ebay shipper (The buyer, it is me. And I even asked for one discount)....

It was a direct purchase, and as for a week nobody wanted it. it cost me, only 150 euro. What is really cheap for an uberzug, new, of a mythical regiment... Why nobody want buy it in germany ???

The sewings zigzag good date of 1930, they are very common on the shoulder straps of the end of Reichswehr and IIIrd Reich (and some pairs of WW1facked)....

 

[souvigny]

here it is my contribution to this post.... my uberzug has painted numbers. I also have an original IR 25 uberzug with red numbers, I am going to shoot it properly to add some informations about the famous stitching of the red numbers. In the meantime....

 

[souvigny]

As promised here they are the pictures of an helmet whith its original cover: this helmet has been found by myself at the Paris flea market (Les puces) 3 years ago. The furnitures dealer who sold it to me found it in a Orleans house when buying the furnitures following an estate. This was the third time in 10 years of weekly dealers day early visit to the flea market. Surprinsingly the last 2 times it was at the same Orleans furnitures dealer and in 2008 it was a prussian helmet too, perfectly stamped of the IR n° 25 again!

IR 25 helmet found november 2008 at the Paris flea market:

Battle damaged:

As you can notice, this normal prussian helmet has his spike unscrewed. It is the A.K.O dated 16th of june 1913 allowing the IR 25 and the FR80 to wear the black Haarbusch in full dress (Larcade).

The following year, I found this one at the same place:

The cover is so weak that it is not possible to remove it entirely from the helmet. At some point the fabric is glued to the helmet leather:

So, none could question the anthenticity of this cover with its red figures originally stitched I guess? On that one the figures are hand-sewn, they are of the same style and size than the ones of the cover with a zig-zag stitching.

I hope this will helps in this passionate debate about the mint condition covers on the market for a long time now. My version is that these helmet covers have been discovered in an old factory located in the former east germany. I also want to add that in the Jürgen Kraus book "the german army", verlag militaria, page 59, 60 & 61, you will find an impressing display of helmets covers from the Bayerisches Armeemuseum Ingolstadt with many "proBe"... Most of them seems to have hand-sewn figures.......

 

[911car]

Very interesting finds and touching relics, Souvigny! Your R119 helmet reminds me of the D25 helmet I found (also in France...) and presented before on the forum:

 

[souvigny]

Bonjour 911car,

je pense que nous nous sommes rencontrés à Paris lorsque j'étais au Louvre des antiquaires? Vous êtes Bruno P. si je me souviens bien et êtes un collectionneur très avisé! J'espère que nous aurons l'occasion de nous revoir (j'étais à LA tout l'été 2008).

 

[edwin]

Amazing! I'd wish something like this would turn up on a Dutch flea market :-?

Regards,

Edwin

 

[feel76]

Hi,

This is my latest find. An Überzug of the Württemberg IR180 with Manoeverband.

 

[feel76]

and my Mannschaften Artillerieüberzug

 

[Lost Skeleton]

Unfortunately, this once useful "sticky" has been decimated by the Photobucket meltdown. As the author, I hope to restore the photos previously illustrating the text one day. For anyone revisiting it because of this reply, I acquired something recently that reminded me of an ongoing, nonsensical argument regarding whether or not Imperial Germans possessed sufficient technology to produce a zigzag stitch for sewing felt regimental numbers to a cloth field cover. A certain vociferous French gentleman refused to believe such stitching could be accomplished by anything other than a state-of-the-art "digital" sewing machine, and, consequently, ANY cover with numbers applied via zigzag was a modern fake.

However, several ironclad contemporary examples of zigzag application were shared, thereby giving the lie to such a ridiculous assertion.

What I have to share today is a bit of ribbon from a Spanish-American War, City of Washington, 1899 commemorative Dewey medal. The intricate U.S. Flag and Navy Jack are machine-embroidered. Now, if a sewing machine could stitch this pattern in 1899, I certainly believe a German sewing machine could sew a zigzag stitch by 1914.

Chas.

 

[argonne]

Hi Chas,

Yeah, I remember this thread on a french forum, years ago....It was a storm in a water glass....Nothing more...
Serious collectors are knowing that such zigzag stitch already has existed before 1914. There are in between many 100% authentic Überzüge that assert this fact!

Philippe
:wink:

 

[b.loree]

Excellent Chas, very nice piece. I would imagine that somewhere on the net there is a History of sewing machine evolution and the expansion of stitching capabilities.