Prussian Garde Helmet for Restoration. Need help and advice.

Streptile

Streptile

New member
Hello everyone on pickelhaubes.com.

My name is Trevor and I have just found my first Pickelhaube in a junk shop in New England. The price was a total steal, so even though I am an orders and medals collector, I decided to take the plunge and give myself a fun Autumn project learning about and restoring this helmet to some semblance of its former beauty.

Let me post the photos. Here is the first photo I took, exactly as it looked when I got it home that afternoon:

View attachment 2

I believe (from what a friend on WAF told me) that this is an Eigetumsstück for a Guard Train Battalion (rounded chinscales). Did I understand his post properly?

When I finally got back to New York City, I snapped more detailed photos, forgetting to include the chinscales:
 
The side post is missing on one side, and all the thread is gone:
View attachment 2
I believe someone has secured the (broken) spine with a modern brass screw through the vent hole. Right?
View attachment 1
One view of the inside:

So... you can see that I have a lot of work in front of me.

Let me reiterate that I am a complete novice when it comes to Pickelhaubes. I intend to attempt a restoration of this, and I joined this forum in the hopes of getting help.



.
 
I have a few preliminary questions:

1. Exactly what am I missing here? Is this a complete list?

  1. • Side post(s)
    • Korkade
    • New (unbroken) spine with vent
    • Liner

2. Should I treat the leather with some cream? I have some high-quality leather treatment I use on my Limmer hiking boots. Will this hurt or help it?

3. Should re-stitching the visors etc. be the first step? Or the last step?

4. Recommendations for cleaning up the spike and Wappen?

I'm sure I will have dozens more questions as the project continues, and I will update with progress.

I am grateful to you all for any attention and help you can give me.

Trevor


.
 
Hi Trevor,
Nice, relatively straightforward restoration project. We have on the forum an expert restorer who can give tons of advice.
As of me I would say:
- Stitching first, by hand through original holes of course
- ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on the liner. You are lucky it has retained its original light tan colour, do not spoil it...
- Very light cleaning of metal fittings. The patina looks nice. No Brasso polishing!
- My recipe for cleaning removable metal parts, like the front plate, is freshly squeezed lemon juice and a soft toothbrush. It does wonders to clean grime, and totally respects the finish, but I am not even sure you need this. Soapy water may be enough.
- You may not have to change the rear spine; just put it back in shape and of course get rid of the ugly screw.
- Side posts are available as copies but originals are not rare
- The trickiest part should be to put the shell back in shape, if you want to. For this I would ask a specialist
Good luck! Post a picture of chinscales if you can.
Bruno
 
Hi Bruno,

Thank you for your very good advice.

On WAF I was told that Brian Loree was the man to talk to about restitching. I joined here hoping to find him... it wasn't that hard as it seems this is his forum. So I hope Brian will spare a word or two of advice for me.

I sort of thought to do this project on my own, so I was going to take a crack at stitching it myself. Anyone have good advice about what kind of needle and thread I should buy? I imagine it must require some thickish thread and a specific needle?

I definitely want to block the shell and remedy the sinking in the top center. My thought was to suspend the helmet from its spike and let gravity do the work for me. Is that a crazy idea? As you can plainly see, I need help... desperately.

With regards to your cleaning advice for the fittings: you've correctly guessed that I do not want to polish this thing up til it shines. I love the cracked and faded look of the entire thing. Rather like an old car that is restored to perfect driving condition but left a bit rusty and worn looking, I want to maintain all the age of this helmet -- all the crazing and cracking and patina -- but get it solid as a rock with stitching and fittings.

If anyone can recommend a good place for M91 side posts I would be grateful. I'd like good clean originals.

Thanks again for your help Bruno.
 
Welcome to the forum Trevor. The first step is to remove all brass fittings being careful not to break the prongs which are bent back into the shell to hold them on. The best tools to use for this are a pairing knife, a small pair of curved needle nose pliers and a straight blade screw driver bit. The screw driver bit comes from one of those that has multiple bits stored in the handle for dealing with different screws. You use this bit because anything else has a handle and cant fit in the helmet shell. You use the knife first to pry up the prongs a little then the blade bit to pry further. Last the pliers to grab the prongs and squeeze them together.
If you take off the spike, use a pencil or marker to make an "F" where the front hole is on the underside of the spike base. Many times the base and shell have collapsed a bit or bent a bit over the last 100 yrs. This will make sure you can match these up.
I recommend now that you go over all the restoration posts that I have made on the forum and see what is involved. One of the earliest posts explains how moisture is put back into the helmet so you can block the top back into place, much faster than hanging from the spike. :)
I would also put the helmet on a head form, so as to maintain shape during and after the restoration. If using a styrofoam head form, I put a plastic bag over it and fasten with an elastic so the liner does not stick to it.
As to the restitch, of both visors, I would leave it to someone with experience, it is not a job for a beginner especially, since this is a private purchase helmet with many more finer stitches then an issued piece. It all has to be done by hand, using proper 100% cotton thread. You bought it for a "steal", save yourself time, lots of aggravation and the possibility of screwing up...... spend the money. Email me ([email protected]) and I will give you a quote. I can also give you the name of another restorer to contact. Regards, Brian
 
Hi Brian,

Thank you for weighing in here, and for your excellent advice. Most of this information I've already emailed to you, but I'll copy it here in the interest of keeping the thread updated:

There is not a single intact stitch that I can see on this helmet. I took photos, but both visors are completely loose so there is really no way to see how they are supposed to fit together. The rear visor was attached only with the spine, the front only with the two brass fittings on either end.

I've removed all the furniture from the helmet per your instructions, photographed and tagged everything. It all came off cleanly with no broken tabs thanks to your guidance.

The spine is broken in every place except the tab where it attaches to the rear visor, so when I removed the modern screw in the vent hole, the entire visor came off cleanly.

The helmet now sits in parts: the crown and front visor; the rear visor and spine; all the hardware, furniture and chinscales logged and tagged in a box.

Here as requested are photos of the chinscales. Pretty nice, complete set I think. Any issues here? Originality? Repairs required?
 
Very nice scales Trevor, excellent condition. Quite often the thinner leather chin strap portion is missing on these. You scales also provide information....they are curved (convex) and therefore are not infantry which are flat scales. This tells us that your helmet came from a mounted Train Battalion, all mounted units have convex scales. Your Garde Train Helmet has all the characteristics of a regular Garde Infantry helme BUT the convex scales tell us.....Train. These troops were part of the logistics organization needed to supply a modern army in the field. They rode horses/drove wagons and vehicles bringing in supplies so thus convex cavalry style scales on your helmet. Sorry.....just re read your original post, you already knew this. :?
 
As an example, here is another one Trevor. This one belonged to one-year volunteer Rabe, 2nd company, Garde Train battalion.





 
Thank you Brian and Bruno for the posts.

Bruno, nice helmet. Is it restored? Or did you find it like that?

Anyway, here is some progress on mine. Blocking done thanks for the excellent instructions found here.
 
I've got one more general question:

I am tempted to rub some high-quality leather treatment cream into the shell and visors.

Is this a bad or a good idea?

_vyr_1470limmer_boot_grease-02.jpg
 
Streptile said:
Thank you Brian and Bruno for the posts.

Bruno, nice helmet. Is it restored? Or did you find it like that?

Anyway, here is some progress on mine. Blocking done thanks for the excellent instructions found here.
Click to expand...

Exactly as found about 17 years ago. Absolutely no restoration. I even never undid the chinscales, which have left a deep print in the visor.
 
Streptile said:
I've got one more general question:

I am tempted to rub some high-quality leather treatment cream into the shell and visors.

Is this a bad or a good idea?

_vyr_1470limmer_boot_grease-02.jpg
Click to expand...

I would say no, don't, but since you do not follow my advice I suppose you will do it right away :D
 
Look very closely at the scales.

The top link is simply a piece of brass sheet without a "sandwich" of leather between two pieces of brass.
Isn't this a bad sign?

If mounted troop scales were made this way during the period, why would it have been necessary to make the M94 posts with a slightly wider gap to accommodate thicker top links on the scales?

These scales look very much like the ones marketed by I.M.A. of New Jersey. Check out the shape of the scales and the way they are aligned.

The buckle is put on backwards, too. Just like the ones here:
http://www.ima-usa.com/german-wwi-pickelhauben-all-brass-chin-scales.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
:-s



b.loree said:
Very nice scales Trevor, excellent condition. Quite often the thinner leather chin strap portion is missing on these. You scales also provide information....they are curved (convex) and therefore are not infantry which are flat scales. This tells us that your helmet came from a mounted Train Battalion, all mounted units have convex scales. Your Garde Train Helmet has all the characteristics of a regular Garde Infantry helme BUT the convex scales tell us.....Train. These troops were part of the logistics organization needed to supply a modern army in the field. They rode horses/drove wagons and vehicles bringing in supplies so thus convex cavalry style scales on your helmet. Sorry.....just re read your original post, you already knew this. :?
Click to expand...
 
Dear God, DO NOT ADD THAT LEATHER CREAM.....your helmet already has an awesome natural finish, there is no need for it. If you add that leather cream your helmet will end up looking like all those greasy ones you see for sale on Ebay.co.uk... :)
 
911car said:
I would say no, don't, but since you do not follow my advice I suppose you will do it right away :D
Click to expand...
I was asking myself: what advice did I not follow of yours? I guess it was to have an expert block the shell...? But I did ask an expert: I asked Brian for advice. So I have taken your advice, I think. And tonight I plan to take your advice about cleaning the furniture lightly with soapy water.

Pontiac9999 said:
Dear God, DO NOT ADD THAT LEATHER CREAM.....
Click to expand...
...and I shall take your advice too.

I definitely do not want this helmet to look "restored." I love the cracked and crazed look of it. If I had found one like Bruno's, I'd be thrilled. But I found this one, I will respect its age. I like things worn in anyway.

So thank you both for your advice :thumb up:
 
pointystuff said:
Look very closely at the scales... These scales look very much like the ones marketed by I.M.A. of New Jersey.
Click to expand...
I have no insight into this question as I am too much a novice. But I will post any information or photos required... just ask. I find it a bit hard to imagine that someone put on bogus chinscales considering where I dug this thing out of, but I've learned that in this hobby, anything's possible.
 
Can anyone recommend a few good websites where original parts are for sale? I am thinking about M91 side-posts, first of all, but also about chinscales if these prove to be modern.

Thanks in advance :cool:
 
Ok...I am going to have to stop shooting my mouth off without really looking at things closely. On close examination, the scales are repros...the M 91 ends are not correct, the end scales are too thin, look at Bruno's helmet. The buckle is not right, too thick and the leather strap is obviously new. Sorry Trevor. I wondered initially.....both M 91 posts gone and yet the scales are there?? but, I put that out of my mind. I was not aware that repro scales were being produced by IMA. I just checked the link...that is what we are dealing with here. Second, no leather treatment on any part of the helmet. Yes anything goes in this hobby...that is why we have the forum to share and protect ourselves.
 
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