Prussian Garde Helmet for Restoration. Need help and advice.

Hi Trevor,

Glad to see you over here!

I missed on the chin scales too Brian, I didn't look close enough either.

A pair of these just sold on eBay for $236.50. I'd never seen anything like it before, and did not realize they were being made like this. They were sold by eBay seller "ye-olde-military shoppe" of Riverton, Rhode Island. Here's a link to the eBay sale for as long as it stays up: http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWI-German-Officers-Spiked-Helmet-Pickelhaube-CHIN-SCALES-/191709060466?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=uRU74x37kDtO27ZAH%252B6ip2upegw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'll post photos from the eBay site later tonite, so that we keep the images after the eBay link is no longer available.

Best Regards,

Alan

Here are photos of the fake chin scales that sold on eBay that are in the link above. Sadly they sold to someone for $236.50 :( :thumbsdown:

















 
Hey guys,

Thanks for the extra info. It's interesting, I pulled this helmet off a peg in the wall in a junk shop in tiny Wolfeboro New Hampshire for $48 (20% off $60, going out of business sale). I never could have imagined that someone would have added new-ish repro chinscales to it. For what it's worth, they were hanging off the one intact side-post (below), and barely attached to the other side with the bent prong you can see in my first post.



But now that I think about it, I guess it does make some sense: someone had done something to this helmet to try and preserve it before I got it, as evidenced by the modern screw through the vent-hole.

Well, I'm on the hunt now for chinscales also. So if anyone can supply these parts, original, condition not terribly important, please do let me know:

• Chinscales (flat or rounded)
• M91 side-posts
• Cockades (Prussia)

You will have my gratitude (and some of my money too!).
 
I agree with Pointystuff, Brian and Alan about the chinscales, Trevor. I had not looked carefully.
Therefore, since 8 infantry regiments and only one Train battalion used to wear this helmet, it is statistically very unlikely that your helmet belonged to the latter.
Best wishes; Bruno
 
Hey Trev.....no worries, you got a hell of a deal, that Wappen (helmet plate) is worth an easy $200+ let alone all the rest of the pieces and fittings. So, the main thing is to track down the M91 posts for now. This will work out, the helmet will be completed and restored, it just takes some time. All of us collectors have had to play this game...finding missing bits and pieces.
 
Great helmet! When you posted it on the WAF I thought "now he said he got it for a steal" so I figured maybe 200-400 bucks but $48?!? Great start and like I said on the other forum, that money saved can go towards a professional re-stitch.

I'm very much looking forward to seeing how this project turns out. Good luck with your replacement parts hunt!
 
Thanks again for all the info and support :thumb up:

The woman who sold me the helmet had no idea what it was, and I told her "Prussian Helmet" so she could write it on the receipt. You can see that I also got a "Sea Captain's Hat" but I think it's more like a parade outfit hat.



The repro chinscales are causing me to rethink the history of this helmet. I imagined it had sat in some attic, untouched for 100 years until someone left it to the local antique shop along with boxes of his great-grandfather's "junk," only to be rediscovered by me on a random roadside stop. Very romantic idea... but I guess it's clear that this helmet had been in someone's collection before.

Funny the stories we tell ourselves, isn't it?
 
Hard to figure this out and unlikely we will ever do so. Any collector would know the true value so eliminate that...a wife/widow, someone cleaning out a house perhaps? I mean if you were a desperate collector looking for a spine or visor trim, you might pay $48 each for those bits but $48 for the whole thing?? There is no logic to this but you lucked out Trevor, and you now have a collector story of discovering "treasure" in a junk shop. This should keep you touring junk shops, Sally Ann's and Good Will for the next 20 years! :D
 
I decided that I would like to try and give the stitching a go myself. I think it turned out okay, but I will say that I will never again do this myself!

I spoke with Brian on the phone for about an hour before starting, and he helped me with a ton of emails and tips in the week leading up to the stitching. I could not possibly have attempted this without his help, and all the hard-won insights he shared with me. He sent me the correct thread and pins, and walked me through getting the correct tools, cleaning the holes (an enormously time consuming and crucial step), where to start, how to stitch, what to do in the case of a problem, how to terminate the thread, how to finish, tighten, everything.

So a HUGE thank you to Coach Brian -- anything I did right was thanks to him, and any mistakes I made were my own.

Here is a photo I snapped of us together over the weekend, prepping for the Big Stitch:

rocky.jpg


And now for some process photos...

Holes cleaned:
View attachment 1

And visor pinned:
 
Let me repeat that there was basically no original thread in this entire helmet, including in the side panels.

So, first thing to stitch were the panels. There was no issue lining up the holes there, so I thought it would be an easy way in. I prepped all the holes and followed Brian's meticulous instructions. No thread breakage yet.

Side panel one:
View attachment 3

And two:
View attachment 2

Next came the front visor, totally detached except for the trim holding it on:
View attachment 1

About five stitches pulled through in the very front of the visor, seen here in the middle of photo:


Not much to be done about that, and the rest were holding pretty firm... for the first night.

I went to bed at about 3am late on Monday (Tuesday morning), having spent about 8 hours prepping the holes on Saturday night, and another 4 hours stitching on Monday night.
 
Tuesday night now, and time for the rear visor, pinned to get the hole placement correct:
View attachment 2

Stitching went pretty well but I had a thread breakage. Luckily Brian coached me on what to do when that happened, so I wrapped it back through the holes per his instructions and continued:
View attachment 1

Now very small pieces of finish started chipping off. Stitching these things requires a very, very light touch, and I was probably a bit too rough, I'm not sure. Here you can see that the finish just where the spine-seam meets the middle of the visor has fallen away:
 
The stitching done, I proceeded to the final step, the shoe polish, just along the stitch line. This is another Brian innovation that proved invaluable to the overall appearance of the work.

Some pics from late last night:
 
One final problem, which probably requires no solution:

During the stitching of the rear visor, quite a few more stitches pulled through from the front visor. I think this was due to my rough handling of the shell during stitching. This job requires a ton of patience and a very gentle touch, something I guess I lacked a bit. So the front visor, while still sturdy enough, has about 20% of its stitches -- or, more correctly, 20% of the small, 100-year-old leather bits between the stitches -- broken. This is something I wish I did not do. But as Brian has repeatedly assured me, any time you are dealing with something this difficult, quirky and old, there are going to be complications.

Over all I am happy with the way this turned out. It took me about 16-17 hours of work, not counting all the time getting the tools and preparing the space, etc.

Again, I need to thank Brian for his expert guidance, without which I would not have even known how or where to begin.
 
You have done extremely well young Rocky! You are a true champion for having got through that marathon title bout :thumb up: Thanks for the appreciation, walking you through this forced me to think about the whole process and what I have learned over the years, I enjoyed it. I love that pic taken of us by your wife, it was cool to be in the Big Apple once again. A great job Trevor!
 
Terrific result! Well done for putting the effort in ( I know I wouldn't have the patience) and well done to Brian for sharing his hard-earned knowledge so freely =D>
 
when is your graduation
you earn the same spot as brian since you gave it a go with the restoration
and for what i can see is looks magnificent
this deserves a big :bravo: =D> =D> =D> =D>
 
Thanks for the encouragement Kaiser :thumb up:

So here's the update on this helmet. After the stitching was done, I was on the hunt for the parts. I saw a pair of cockades for sale on eBay that looked good. Brian confirmed they would be a good match for me helmet, and also told me that they were being offered by Randy at Age of Kings, a name I know from various other posts here in the restoration section. So I won the cockades and sent an email to Randy asking him about the other parts I needed:

• M91 side posts
• Chinscales
• Spine

He suggested I send him my spine to see if he had an unbroken one, which I did. He didn't find a good match but was good enough to solder prongs on the reverse of mine while he had it. He also was not able to find chinscales for me. But yesterday Randy's package arrived and inside were the cockades, the repaired spine and a chinstrap with original fittings and replaced leather. Basically everything I needed to put this baby back together.

I spent the day yesterday doing just that. Here are the results. Overall:

View attachment 4
View attachment 3

Cockades:
View attachment 1
View attachment 2

Spine and spike:


Thanks again to everyone for commenting and helping me, especially to Brian and Randy.
 
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