SOS B Loree Filz JzP

Also, if a member goes to Brussels, and does find an identical helmet in their colelction, the next step is to ask to see the accession record. If it was accessed by the museum in, say, the 1920's or 30's, then it's a good bet that it's original. If it was accessed within the last 15 years or so, then there would be doubt in my mind.

:D Ron
 
I did not mean to dis-respect anyone on the forum. I was merely responding to Adler's comment about how many pickelhaubes that he has held in his hand.Without holding this one in your hand, you have no idea as to why alot of people are very impressed with it. He may have seen one being dragged around the shows for the past eight years but it isn't this one. Sorry to all if i offended anyone. I'm only trying to find an answer. I really appreciate all the feedback. Without the help from all of you, I would have much less information. Thanks again for all the help.
 
Well spoken Adler and Chuck. This type of discussion and honest opinion is exactly what this forum is all about. I am not going to belabour this but I would like to remind everyone how easily "text" can lead to misunderstandings. Face to face two or more people can interpret tone of voice, body language, eye contact etc and get a usually correct understanding of what is being said. Text is ONE dimensional and does not allow for these other factors. This thread has already led to a lot of information...thanks to Ron, I now know how visor trim was made! More importantly, do we have any contacts in this Belgian Museum?
 
WOW! It certainly appears to be the same helmet. Like I said, It came from a head gear collectors estate in Arkansas. He may have purchased the helmet from this site. Is there any way to get a copy of the sales description, to see if there is any history included with it? If not, maybe someone who speaks German can contact the site.Anyway, great! Thanks for the information.
 
Okay, so I see that what I thought was 'beading' on the cape is layered and sewn felt. :-k Obviously, the idea of saving time by using felt would not work in this case, since forming metal by machine and putting it together would most likely be quicker.

Felt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv2c1n7cxcU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Steel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqyaOvXvSnE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:D Ron
 
Yes, that was my thoughts about the helmet maybe being an experimental one, before being ridiculed by a member for trying to "go from rare to experimental."If you saw the helmet in person, you would see what i mean about it being too costly to produce, even if made of felt. It may not be authentic, but if not, it should be in a art museum for creativity. I will try to get on the website, that had it for sale, and see if they have any history to report.Thanks for finding the pictures from 2006.I have only owned it for a couple of years.
 
I still hope that this proves to be an original (period) helmet, but I would be more inclined to believe that this wasn't an experimental as much as a manufacturer's sample of what they could do in the area of mounted helmets. In such a case it would be similar to a prototype offered by any manufacturer to a government for inspection.. and perhaps rejection. From my experience, such hopeful submissions and solicitations for contracts ranged from simple clothing items to tanks and aircraft (during WWII).

Some things do strike me as odd. First is the round spike base, rather than a JzP or Kurassier type. However, that could be explained as what a manufacturer of felt helmets would have on hand (but why not a line plate, which would be more likely in stock along with the round base and already found on some erzatz Kuerassier helmets). Also what looks like hand stitching to hold the liner in, or is it holding the cape on? I don't see a manufacturer doing this, unless the liner was replaced later by a collector (?). IF the hand stitching is holding the cape on, there also hand stitching for the visor?

Again, I hope this proves to be an original, but I think it would also be wise to be ready for the opposite (which you probably already are).

:D Ron
 
before being ridiculed by a member for trying to "go from rare to experimental.
Click to expand...

Putting a moderators hat on let's not be so tough on each other. Karel is one of the greatest collectors around. His opinion is just that an opinion. This helmet has caused much speculation and a lot of opinions – not a lot of ridicule.
 
Sorry, never should have used the word experimental,since the design already exists. I should have described it as a different type of manufacturing. About the liner. It is held in by rivets,not stitching. I'll try to take a photo of the inside liner attachment.
I registered for the site, which sold the helmet in 2006. They replied that it takes up to 5 days to receive to complete.
 
Just picked up this discussion tread. I noticed this helmet at the show too and snapped off a couple quick photos. I didn't really do a detailed forensic exam of the thing because, frankly, it it didn't occur to me that it might be fake. It was one-looker for me, but then again, I tend to be insufficiently critical sometimes. Plus, I wasn't about to spend $5k on the to buy it, so I wasn't looking at it with a potential buyer's degree of scrutiny. Still, my personal feeling about the piece is that it's probably original. With all this discussion, now I wish I could take a second look. It's certainly a very interesting helmet.

Mark D.
 
Interesting that the cape and visor weren't machine sewn onto the dome, like the segments of the cape were. I wonder why a manufacturer would do that? :-k :-k

:D Ron
 
Well, I got a response to my email to The Milshop in Germany that sold the filz JzP in 2006. Klaus Schwaiger,the owner sent this reply to my question as to some provenance or history of origin. See attached
 
Sorry that the scan is hard to read. It says that he purchased the helmet from a museum in Belgium in 2006. So maybe i have the one that was in the Brussels museum and is now in my collection.He states that it is 100% original. Still no photos.If anyone can verify that the Museum sold it to The Milshop, Please let me know.
 
http://www.klm-mra.be/klm-new/engels/main01.php?id=menu_links/startpagina" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This Museum is Federal State Property and Department of Defense !
They will never sell one item: not even a single uniformbutton. Even the dust on the old vitrines is State Property...

So please do forget about linking this item to this museum.

Francis
 
Francis,
I am not trying to do anything, except find out more information about this item. I do know that the same regulations apply to museum items in the U.S. They are government run and sell duplicate items and other donated items to provide room for new items.Read the email. He states that he purchased the item from a museum in Belgium. I did not make the statement.
 
So maybe i have the one that was in the Brussels museum and is now in my collection
Click to expand...

That is an interesting possibility. 8) You know even the great Smithsonian Institution in the USA sold a bunch of items. I hope to go there in a month or so maybe I can ask about it?

V/R
Joe
 
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