SOS B Loree Filz JzP

Having never worked in a European museum, I can't really comment on their collections, however, US museums as stated are constantly de-accessing artifacts due to deterioration, need for storage space (they'll get rid of artifacts that don't quite fit in with the focus of the museum) or just because of moves from one location to another. It's well worth the while of collectors to ask to see any stored items that are of interest and mention, "By the way, if you ever decide to de-access this, I'd be interested." for items you might want. It also helps to state that you're a collector who can actually store, preserve and care for the artifact. Of course, you often have to outbid other interested parties if they decide to sell, but sometimes one lucks out! :)

:D Ron
 
Joe,
That would be great. If you go there ,please see if you can find out anything about the Filz JzP. I would greatly appreciate your effort. Ron, if I decide to de-access I will get with you. Thanks for the interest.
Chuck
 
posking said:
Joe,
That would be great. If you go there ,please see if you can find out anything about the Filz JzP. I would greatly appreciate your effort. Ron, if I decide to de-access I will get with you. Thanks for the interest.
Chuck
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Thanks very much for thinking of me, but it's not really on my 'hit list', I'm still building what I consider to be my basic collection.

:D Ron
 
Yes there is never any ridicule in any of Adlers' posts, you need to reread his comments Chuck, he says he hopes that it is real but freely expresses his opinion about doubts. He also makes it clear that he realizes that it is just his opinion and with that proviso we all have a right to that in any discussion/debate which is the heart of democracy.
 
b.loree said:
just his opinion and with that proviso we all have a right to that in any discussion/debate which is the heart of democracy.
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I think Canadian beer is over rated:)
 
If from belgian, then only from a private Museum. A Museum like Sanctuary Wood Museum (Hill 62). I remember a lot of fakes in the exibition and many put together helmets.
 
I think we have kind of gotten off the subject. We were trying to determine the authenticity of my felz JzP. Now we are discussing the credibility of the Belgium Museum system.If anybody has some credible information about the helmet please let me know. The people that have seen and held it in there hands are more impressed with it than the people that would like to give an opinion based solely on there lack of information, concerning the helmet.I appreciate all of the positive input. There have been a few people who have claimed to have seen a second or maybe a third example.The third one in question could however be the one that I own and actually just another siting of the second one. Anyway, thanks to everyone for there input and happy collecting!
Chuck
 
I agree with Adler i am pretty sure this helmet is fake i have seen it a lot of times in Kassel at the militariashow the helmet has a strange chemical smell it was indeed for sale by milshop who is also standing every year in Kassel this guy is selling a lot of fake items , i also visit the army museum in Brussel a lot of times and i have never seen such a helmet there.

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You know, I would have appreciated your evaluation and think that maybe you knew what you were talking about until you came up with that stupid statement about the chemical smell. This helmet smells of nothing but old musk.I can't comment about the Milshop owner. I have never met the man.As far as the museum, Ken said that maybe he saw it at a different museum but stated that he did see it in Europe, at a museum.The helmet came from a museum in Belgium, unless you want to accuse Klaus of not telling the truth.People are proven innocent until proven guilty.Why is it that without seeing this helmet, not one that you saw in Europe, that you can label it as fake.You obviously proved your your lack of knowledge by saying that it had a strong chemical smell.Also, Ken said that he had seen some of these helmets that were fake but this one did not have the same characteristics. Anyway, if you are not sure of what you speak, I would appreciate you not commenting on the subject. I would appreciate any credible comments and keep the museum pictures to yourself. We have already seen the display twice.
 
Posking- I have kept out of this one, I looked and held the helmet at SOS with your permission and will keep my opinion to myself.

However, every time some one posts on here that they do not like it, you come back and insult them and to keep their opinions to themselves. You have now insulted 2 very knowledgeable collectors that our great contributors to the forum and the hobby.

I know you want the helmet to be real, but let's keep it civil please!

As far as the pictures from the museum go, these are different then the others and I for one love to see them as they show many rare helmets.

Best

James
 
I have watched this thread with interest. I have not handled the helmet, and my knowledge of cavalry helmets is relatively limited. Therefore I have no opinion on its authenticity. Posking, you are not doing yourself any favors here. While nobody can claim to know everything, the members here and those who frequent this site probably represent the greatest body of knowledge concerning pickelhauben on the planet. I would suggest you review Adler's Collection thread before insulting and alienating him more than you already have. Aside from the considerable financial investment involved in assembling such a collection, the research, acquisition of knowledge and experience represent an equal or greater investment. And you come here begging for some of that painstakingly gained knowledge and behave badly when you don't like what you hear.
I collect firearms, mainly. I have owned prototypes and tool room experimentals, some very rare weapons. Those guns were like boats: the two happiest days of your life are the day you buy it and the day you sell it. I know you are desperate for your helmet to be authenticated and have other collectors beating a path to your door trying to shower you with gazillions of dollars to buy it, but don't hold your breath waiting. Unless some authenticating documentation or photographs surface, the jury will always be out. And if the helmet is so obscure nobody knows what it is, then it's merely a curiosity.
I suggest you take a "time out", and return with some courtesy and respect.
Consider your ways.
Steve

PS I would also suggest you refrain from using words like "stupid" when referring to other members' opinions. It just demeans you further.
 
West front,
I said nothing concerning Adler. My only comment was that you stated that the helmet had a chemical smell. This shows me
that you are speaking of a different helmet. You are entitled to an opinion like everyone else. I merely resent that you label this helmet incorrectly. I have shown it to hundreds of people and absolutely NO ONE said anything like that. I never meant to question anyone's integrity only to bring out the fact that you must be speaking of a different helmet.
 
Westfront said:
I agree with Adler i am pretty sure this helmet is fake i have seen it a lot of times in Kassel at the militariashow the helmet has a strange chemical smell it was indeed for sale by milshop who is also standing every year in Kassel this guy is selling a lot of fake items , i also visit the army museum in Brussel a lot of times and i have never seen such a helmet there.

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I thought this post was worthy of a quote in case the OP decides to delete it as these are some of the best photos of the display at Brussels.
The argument that the helmet in question should not be compared to the one in Europe changes the playing field, now we are no longer discussing a helmet that there are three known examples of, but a unique helmet. While people are assumed innocent until proven guilty, artifacts are presumed dubious until they have good provenance. To me, it looked good until the hand stitching was pointed out. As far as smell, I do not place much in that other than the smell of fresh leather, musty smells can come quickly and chemical smells can be the result of someone trying to cover the musty smell of age. I picked up a nice Filtzhelm years ago, it smelled of perfume (or one could say "stank" of perfume).
Best
Gus
 
Gus,
Thank you for the constructive feedback. I think that we are discussing two or more different helmets. The helmet that I own was purchased in 2006 and has been in a private collection in the U.S. since that time. The owner passed away in 2013 and I was able to purchase it from someone who purchased a large part of his collection.Since it has resided in the USA for almost a decade, it could not be the one that has been making the German shows.I apologize for some of my harsh replies to follow forum members comments.It just got to me, that statements were made that just didn't apply to this helmet,like chemical smell,etc. Ken,who I mentioned, who stated that he had seen this helmet at a museum and also stated that there were fakes that existed of this helmet. However, he told me that this example had characteristics that the fakes did not have.Anyway, I guess until period photos or documentation appear, the helmet will remain in question.Sorry again for whoever I upset.
Thanks,
Chuck
 
Years ago, I purchased a nice replica Flizhaube from Germany, as a replica. Its leather smells new and there is indeed a chemical smell to the felt. Aside from the plate and officer liner on an EM type helmet ("private purchase? :wink: ) it looks pretty good other than the chinstrap and what looks like copper cockades. i.e. the form is right.

Now you guys have me curious and I'm willing to do a little experiment with it: I have a 'wine cellar' ( actually a cement store-room under our front porch) that gets musty, but not moldy, in the summer. I'm going to place it in there and see how long it takes to get an aged smell. I'll report back when (if) it does or doesn't. I have enough authentic helmets to know what one smells like, so we'll see what happens. It might take all summer, but we'll see. :)

My question, can a new helmet take on that 'good aged Pickelhaube' smell that we all love? If so, can it be done quickly? (within a few months)

:D Ron
 
Hey Ron,
I wear a felt hat 99% of the time I am outside, I go through one about every three years. A new felt hat can loose its "new hat smell" in a very short time, it all depends on what it is exposed to. I do not place much credit in the "how it smells" thought of dating an artifact. It will be interesting to hear how you come out with the test.
Best
Gus
 
The problem with doing this sniff test on your hat is that you have to take a whiff of Gus too. I wouldn't describe that as a chemical stink – just a stink. :compress: :knob: :spam2:
 
joerookery said:
The problem with doing this sniff test on your hat is that you have to take a whiff of Gus too. I wouldn't describe that as a chemical stink – just a stink. :compress: :knob: :spam2:
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Thanks Joe, and all this time I thought you did not care, but you are lucky you have only met my "going to town hat" my work hat is a bit stronger:)
 
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