The Hessen Family of Helmets and Their Characteristics
- Thread starter 911car
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reservist1
Member
Larry: For further comparison here is another IR115 helmet made by Martin Mayer, Mainz, in 1915.
Reservist1
Reservist1
Excellent helmets all round gentlemen. I am wondering, are all the 115 OR's helmets shown here on the forum the type where only the tip of the spike screws off? The one that I have in my collection is like that. Is this typical of OR 115 helmets or are there variations? I have a Hessen reserve officer hemet with brass fittings where the spike tip and collar screw down over the neck of the spike fitting. More like a traditional Prussian spike. R1 your OR 115 helme seems to have the spike tip and collar type of top on it.
Did the other Hessen Regts with brass fittings follow this characteristic where only the very tip of the spike unscrews?? And, how about the Hessen dragoon helmet spikes?? I guess, that I am trying to use our collector net work here to establish some typical Hessen characteristics for ORs and officer helmets both in brass and silver fittings. The Hessens in general, are very rare, but we do have a world wide network here and I do think that it would be very beneficial to establish some common traits for both brass and silver officer and ORs plus of course the helmets from JR115. I promise to put up pics of what I have in my collection. One last thing, was Mayer the exclusive manufacturer for JR115?? What about the other Hessen Regts?? I look forward to some interesting findings on this thread. Who else has the resources at their disposal that we do fellow forum members. Please check the Hessen helmets that you have in your collections. All the best, Brian
My JR 115:
Picture files replaced January 2020.
Did the other Hessen Regts with brass fittings follow this characteristic where only the very tip of the spike unscrews?? And, how about the Hessen dragoon helmet spikes?? I guess, that I am trying to use our collector net work here to establish some typical Hessen characteristics for ORs and officer helmets both in brass and silver fittings. The Hessens in general, are very rare, but we do have a world wide network here and I do think that it would be very beneficial to establish some common traits for both brass and silver officer and ORs plus of course the helmets from JR115. I promise to put up pics of what I have in my collection. One last thing, was Mayer the exclusive manufacturer for JR115?? What about the other Hessen Regts?? I look forward to some interesting findings on this thread. Who else has the resources at their disposal that we do fellow forum members. Please check the Hessen helmets that you have in your collections. All the best, Brian
My JR 115:
Picture files replaced January 2020.
Lost Skeleton
Well-known member
Hi Brian:b.loree said:
That's an excellent idea regarding a Hessen database, but instead of making it an addendum to this discussion, it should start life as a Sticky in "Pickelhaube discussion" (as things quickly get buried unless they're headliners).
This would be my contribution:
http://www.pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3411
reservist1
Member
Brian: The screw off spike on my 115th helmet has an intergral collar.
It is also interesting to note the differences in the position of the "1621" bandeau on the four samples illustrated. My helmet and Larry's have the bandeau mounted such that it sits on top of the foward arm of the spike base. Tony's and Bruno's helmets have the bandeau positioned under the front arm of the cross base.
Reservist1
Hi Brian,
All the hessian infantry EM helmets I own - white or yellow fittings - have only the tip of the spike screwing off. All the officer helmets - white or yellow - have the more classic unscrewable spike with the "skirt".
As an oddity, the two hessian train EM helmets I have bear non-detachable spikes, albeit they are undoubtedly genuine. I had a total of 3 hessian train helmets, only one of which had a detachable spike...
All the hessian infantry EM helmets I own - white or yellow fittings - have only the tip of the spike screwing off. All the officer helmets - white or yellow - have the more classic unscrewable spike with the "skirt".
As an oddity, the two hessian train EM helmets I have bear non-detachable spikes, albeit they are undoubtedly genuine. I had a total of 3 hessian train helmets, only one of which had a detachable spike...
b.loree said:We got into this area of collecting Hessen helmets on another thread and it was suggested by Chas that perhaps this particular state and its pickelhauben which are quite rare, deserve their own special thread so here goes. I will approach Mr. Incredible and see if he can move relevant posts over to this new area. Here is my Hessen Reserve Officer helmephotos replaced Dec. 2019)
The unique Hessen Officer spike.
Maple Creek
Member
Since we're on the subject of spikes for Hessian helmets, here's a spike that came off a Prussian M15 EM helmet. I assume this was a post-war mis-match, but wondered if this would have been used on a Hessian helmet? A Bavarian helmet? Both? Would the spike base have been round or cruciform?
Mark D.
Mark D.
reservist1
Member
The spike definitely has the configuration associated with Hessian infantry and dragoon helmets, all of which would have cross bases.
Other M15 helmets using cross bases and fluted spikes of somewhat different configuration are Bavarian Chevauleger, Schwere Reiter, Field Artillery, Mecklenburg Grenadier Regiment 89 and Mecklenburg Fusilier Regiment 90.
Take a look at The Kaiser's Bunker as Tony has a very good illustration of an M15 Bavarian helmet wiith fluted spike/cross base.
Reservist1
Other M15 helmets using cross bases and fluted spikes of somewhat different configuration are Bavarian Chevauleger, Schwere Reiter, Field Artillery, Mecklenburg Grenadier Regiment 89 and Mecklenburg Fusilier Regiment 90.
Take a look at The Kaiser's Bunker as Tony has a very good illustration of an M15 Bavarian helmet wiith fluted spike/cross base.
Reservist1
Here is a rare bird, a Model 1895 Leibgarde-Infanterie-Regt. (1. Großherzoglich Hessisches) Nr.115 (Darmstadt) XVIII Armee Korps pre-1897 (brass fittings) Pickelhaube for a Senior NCO Unteroffizier mit Portepee (Vizefeldwebel to Feldwebel). More photos HERE
And the spike top:
Here is my Model 1895 Leibgarde-Infanterie-Regt. (1. Großherzoglich Hessisches) Nr.115 (Darmstadt) XVIII Armee Korps Mannschaften (Other Ranks) Pickelhaube. More photos HERE
And the ol' spike top:
By far my most interesting Hessen and one my most favourite helmets, my Model 1867 Hessen Mannschaften (Other Ranks) Pickelhaube that was originally was worn by Hessisches Garde Dragoner Regt in the Franco-Preußen war of 1870-71, then worn by the same regiment when they became Dragoner Regt Nr. 23, then issued to Infanterie-Leib Regt. Großherzogin (3. Großherzoglich Hessisches) Nr.117, and then possibly issued for a final time to a Hessen line Infantry regiment. Spike is one piece. More photos HERE
Finally for me, my Model 1915 Hessen Feld Artillerie Mannschaften (Other Ranks) Pickelhaube for 1. GroSherzogl. Hessisches Feldartill.-Regt. Nr. 25, Darmstadt XVIII. Armee-Korps. The helmet is correctly unit marked "FAR 25" and "BAX 18" on the rear visor. Yep, round spike base! More photos HERE
And the spike top:
Here is my Model 1895 Leibgarde-Infanterie-Regt. (1. Großherzoglich Hessisches) Nr.115 (Darmstadt) XVIII Armee Korps Mannschaften (Other Ranks) Pickelhaube. More photos HERE
And the ol' spike top:
By far my most interesting Hessen and one my most favourite helmets, my Model 1867 Hessen Mannschaften (Other Ranks) Pickelhaube that was originally was worn by Hessisches Garde Dragoner Regt in the Franco-Preußen war of 1870-71, then worn by the same regiment when they became Dragoner Regt Nr. 23, then issued to Infanterie-Leib Regt. Großherzogin (3. Großherzoglich Hessisches) Nr.117, and then possibly issued for a final time to a Hessen line Infantry regiment. Spike is one piece. More photos HERE
Finally for me, my Model 1915 Hessen Feld Artillerie Mannschaften (Other Ranks) Pickelhaube for 1. GroSherzogl. Hessisches Feldartill.-Regt. Nr. 25, Darmstadt XVIII. Armee-Korps. The helmet is correctly unit marked "FAR 25" and "BAX 18" on the rear visor. Yep, round spike base! More photos HERE
Excellent helmets T!! This is going to be a great thread/sticky and many thanks as usual for working your computer magic aand shifting some of the previous posts over to this section of the forum. This whole forum could not happen without your techno help let alone your collector expertise. B
A young officer.
reservist1
Member
Kokardes for other ranks Hessian helmets seem to exist in two styles, silver plated bodies with red painted rings and white painted bodies with red painted rings.
For those owners of Hessian silver trim helmets, IR 115, DR 23 and DR 24, is the Hessian kokarde on your helmet silver/red or white/red? There have always been questions whether the silver kokardes were issue items for all silver trim helmets, just IR 115 or were they private purchase?
Obviously, as kokardes were easily replaceable parts, both during the official use period of the helmets and in the many years of subsequent "collector manipulations", it may be difficult to determine if the silver/red kokardes were issue items for particular Hessian helmets.
Reservist1
For those owners of Hessian silver trim helmets, IR 115, DR 23 and DR 24, is the Hessian kokarde on your helmet silver/red or white/red? There have always been questions whether the silver kokardes were issue items for all silver trim helmets, just IR 115 or were they private purchase?
Obviously, as kokardes were easily replaceable parts, both during the official use period of the helmets and in the many years of subsequent "collector manipulations", it may be difficult to determine if the silver/red kokardes were issue items for particular Hessian helmets.
Reservist1
reservist1 said:
Can't say, going through a hideous divorce, Kaiser's Bunker is packed away. Not a button left in my display rooms... :sad3:
