Help needed with Friend's I.R. 92 Braunschweig enlisted Helmet

Anything hauben

Moderators: b.loree, joerookery

Post Reply
ww1czechlegion
Exceptional Contributor
Exceptional Contributor
Posts: 808
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:01 pm
Location: Iowa

Help needed with Friend's I.R. 92 Braunschweig enlisted Helmet

Post by ww1czechlegion » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:56 am

Hello,

I had the privilege of viewing an old friend's Imperial German collection last Friday, which was a lot of fun to see.

He has an I.R. 92 Issue Marked M95 helmet enlisted pattern helmet that he acquired in the mid-1970's. It came without a front plate on it when he acquired it. A few years later, he acquired the front plate with the pre-1912 Braunschweig enlisted device mounted on the eagle, from the same person he had earlier acquired the issue marked helmet from with no front plate on the helmet.

My question is whether or not the Braunschweig device appears to be original or not to those who have seen or have an original example.

I wish that I could have taken the eagle off the helmet to view for myself, and to take photos of the mounting and of the back side of the device. Maybe I can do so on another visit.

I'm sorry that the photos of the front plate are not clearer.

Thanks for any feedback you can give here, I appreciate it!

Best Regards,

Alan
101_1764.JPG
101_1761.JPG
101_1759.JPG
101_1758.JPG
101_1760.JPG

ww1czechlegion
Exceptional Contributor
Exceptional Contributor
Posts: 808
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:01 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Help needed with Friend's I.R. 92 Braunschweig enlisted Helmet

Post by ww1czechlegion » Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:01 am

I'll add some additional information about the front plate:

As mentioned, he acquired it a few years later from the same person he had purchased the helmet from when it had no front plate on it, circa late 1970's.

He paid a whopping $5.00 for the eagle and the Braunschweig device, circa late 1970's.

The eagle has screw post mounting devices.

The eagle is also technically "incorrect" as it is the "Koenig" eagle, and not the proper "Fuerst" eagle.

Best Regards,

Alan

User avatar
argonne
Exceptional Contributor
Exceptional Contributor
Posts: 876
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:54 am
Location: Preussen, BA.IX district
Contact:

Re: Help needed with Friend's I.R. 92 Braunschweig enlisted Helmet

Post by argonne » Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:12 am

I am not an expert but I am afraid, we have here a fake :(

Philippe
:wink:
http://www.dekokopf.de/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-------------------------
"Laechle und sei froh, denn es koennte schlimmer kommen!" - Und ich lächelte und war froh - Und es kam schlimmer..."

ww1czechlegion
Exceptional Contributor
Exceptional Contributor
Posts: 808
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:01 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Help needed with Friend's I.R. 92 Braunschweig enlisted Helmet

Post by ww1czechlegion » Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:33 am

Hello Philippe,

Many thanks, I appreciate it.

I assume the marking on the helmet are o.k.?

Just the front plate device is bad, correct?

Best Regards,

Alan

User avatar
argonne
Exceptional Contributor
Exceptional Contributor
Posts: 876
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:54 am
Location: Preussen, BA.IX district
Contact:

Re: Help needed with Friend's I.R. 92 Braunschweig enlisted Helmet

Post by argonne » Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:48 am

Alan,

The markings seem to be very good :thumb up:

But as you said, Koenig eagle is wrong and the centre with the "runing horse" seems to be a fake...

Philippe
:wink:
http://www.dekokopf.de/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-------------------------
"Laechle und sei froh, denn es koennte schlimmer kommen!" - Und ich lächelte und war froh - Und es kam schlimmer..."

User avatar
Zebedeus
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 4:48 pm
Location: State of Confusion

Re: Help needed with Friend's I.R. 92 Braunschweig enlisted Helmet

Post by Zebedeus » Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:38 am

The opinion of Philippe is also mine. The eagle with konig is obviously incorrect and the braunschweig wappen with horse is a copy. The original braunschweig wappen are more detailed than this.
Nec recisa recedit.

User avatar
b.loree
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5322
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:52 pm
Location: Ontario CN

Re: Help needed with Friend's I.R. 92 Braunschweig enlisted Helmet

Post by b.loree » Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:51 pm

Great markings but where can one ever find an original wappen to complete the helmet ? :(
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...

ww1czechlegion
Exceptional Contributor
Exceptional Contributor
Posts: 808
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:01 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Help needed with Friend's I.R. 92 Braunschweig enlisted Helmet

Post by ww1czechlegion » Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:48 pm

Thanks for your help on this gentlemen, I appreciate it!

As Brian said, "where can one ever find an original wappen to complete the helmet ?" :(

I have a nicely repaired "Fuerst" eagle that might fit on the helmet, but the chances would be extremely slim to none of ever finding an original Braunschweig enlisted "Running Horse" device. Yes, it's sad and unfortunate for this otherwise very nice and rare helmet.

Best Regards,

Alan

911car
Special Ranks Member
Special Ranks Member
Posts: 1889
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:59 pm
Location: Los Angeles USA

Re: Help needed with Friend's I.R. 92 Braunschweig enlisted Helmet

Post by 911car » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:42 pm

Alan,
Here is the real thing, if it can help.
Best,
Bruno
L1000988.JPG
L1000988 - Copy.JPG

User avatar
kaiser
Special Ranks Member
Special Ranks Member
Posts: 1036
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:55 pm
Location: belgium

Re: Help needed with Friend's I.R. 92 Braunschweig enlisted Helmet

Post by kaiser » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:12 pm

It deffinitly helpes now you can compaire yours with the one that started this thread
There is a diffrence between the two thats for sure

Jonas

Arran
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 431
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:51 pm
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: Help needed with Friend's I.R. 92 Braunschweig enlisted Helmet

Post by Arran » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:59 am

I'm sure you could find an original correct plate either quickly by contacting the world's top dealers and collectors and being willing to pay through the nose, or some time over the next five years spending an hour or so a day scouring the internet. I recommend the latter!
Looking for German-made pickelhauben for foreign markets!

User avatar
argonne
Exceptional Contributor
Exceptional Contributor
Posts: 876
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:54 am
Location: Preussen, BA.IX district
Contact:

Re: Help needed with Friend's I.R. 92 Braunschweig enlisted Helmet

Post by argonne » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:05 pm

One single difference!
Brunos helmet is Reserve or Landwehr and shows surely the stamp RJR73, RJR78, LJR74 or LJR78 on the neckguard, near the 92R!
The active plates with the running horse are not so common because they have been either replaced 1912 in all the JR92 Bataillons by the Totenkopf center or the helmets where they were mounted moved to the Reserve or Landwehr with addition of a totaly new wappen like Brunos: the banner "Peninsula" is gone and the "Fuerst" Reserve Cross is part of the center and has not been soldered on it. The wappen with soldered reserve crosses are fakes and they are mostly not curved around the center but straight.

A good exemple of Reserve or landwehr, like Brunos:
Image

Left a good one, right a fake:
Image

A fake Reserve or Landwehr:
Image

A good active one, but private purchased (Eigentum). This is such a center that is needed for the helmet of this thread, but from the Kammer for EM helmets:
Image

Philippe
:wink:
http://www.dekokopf.de/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-------------------------
"Laechle und sei froh, denn es koennte schlimmer kommen!" - Und ich lächelte und war froh - Und es kam schlimmer..."

User avatar
b.loree
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5322
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:52 pm
Location: Ontario CN

Re: Help needed with Friend's I.R. 92 Braunschweig enlisted Helmet

Post by b.loree » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:01 pm

Thanks Philippe for some great fotos and an education on fakes and originals! :thumb up:
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...

Post Reply