Spike General or Bavarian ??

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PROGLORIA
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Spike General or Bavarian ??

Post by PROGLORIA » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:49 am

Hello
The difference between a spike of officer of General and Bavarian officer.
If the collectors do not know this difference one can be mistaken bus at first sight they are identical.
In bottom the spike of Bavarois officer is straight and comes to cover the base.the spike of General is bent and comes ON the basis ( (Nota ..and the 1 Garde-regiment.zu Fuss).
Sorry for my bad english :? but I wanted to give this information. :)
Now if collectors could bring photographs of...... Harbbusctrichter of Général ...normally this time it's ....straight !! :D :D
Merci beaucoup !
Daniel

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Image Image

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Post by joerookery » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:27 pm

Daniel,

We did a comparison of these a long time ago. No one has pointed out the clarity that you have. It seems to me that there are many variations.
Image
In the private purchase world there seem to be many different types. I have seen two different rounded general spike bases. I have seen several different officer variations. Thank you for pointing out once again that there are big differences!
VR/Joe
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Post by Kaiser Bill » Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:32 pm

Thank you Daniel. The pictures and the line drawings are great. Bill

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Post by b.loree » Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:39 am

Daniel, your English is excellent. Keep making posts on the forum. How about a picture of your generals helme? Brian
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Post by mravery » Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:01 pm

Hey Guys,

I had noticed the thread before which discussed the spike types an was a
confused over the Bavarian General's spike. It's my understanding that ALL bavarian helmets had the spike that went OVER the base and not rolled under.

In regards to the 'rolled under' theory... I completly agree (for other than Bavarians)... However.... I have numerous photographs of Prussian generals where you can clearly see that the spike goes OVER the base.

I believe that what it comes down to... is what the helmet dealer had on the shelf at the moment........

In regards to the trickters... I have seen both.... those rolled under and those going over the base... for generals.... So I don't know if there was a specific regulation for this or not.

My '2' cents
Mark

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Great stuff

Post by zipperheads9 » Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:58 pm

Grteat stuff. This helps ,to learn by education you have and I don't .
hanks
Mark

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Post by Adler54 » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:08 am

Daniel do you mean the 1st Garde zu fuss officer's Pickelhaube has the same spike than the general one ? i'm confused.
I have a Garde officer Pickelhaube with silver fittings and this kind of spike ,and i thought it was not its original spike , so i will post photos later, before making a silly thing (sell it ).
Philippe

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PROGLORIA
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Post by PROGLORIA » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:24 am

Hello
Yes the pickelhaube " the 1 Garde-regiment.zu Fuss" has the same spik of Général . ( the base is bent ) I can affirm it.
look this picture you can see the spike and the specific details..
Image.
soory for the quality .
DB

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Another Garde spike example

Post by istanbulian » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:40 am

...ummm, now that spike has a different look to my example from the 2nd & 3rd Bns of the same Regiment :( I've always been a bit dubious about my example because it does not unscrew, which strikes me as strange for a Garde Regiment. aagghhhh !

Image

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Post by PROGLORIA » Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:36 pm

Yes , sorry it 's not good because all btl. of Garde-regt zu fuss have a Haarbush .
White haarbush for I and II Btl ands black for III btl.( thus the three spikes are unscrewed )
The I Btl has one " stringcourse" with Semper Talis AND the spike same of spike of general.
The II Btl and III have a spike same of Bavarian
Sorry for my bad english
:cry:
DB

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Great info

Post by zipperheads9 » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:24 pm

this is a great bit of info. Your English is better than my French and my english Spellong.
Mark

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Post by 911car » Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:12 pm

Even in regiments not wearing the Haarbusch, most officer helmets had unscrewable spikes, presumably for easier storage and transportation. Yet, once in a while you come across an officer helmet, like Istanbulian's, with a non-detachable spike. Why is that? These non-unscrewable spikes are not modern copies, they were made at the time, hence were supposed to be used. This had already been briefly debated on the forum. Maybe today somebody as a clue?...
Bruno

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Post by JR92 » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:25 am

Hallo,

Hier ein nicht abschraubarer Pickel.
Bodenfund in der Champagne
Freundliche Grüsse.
Salut, à bientôt \:D/

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Post by istanbulian » Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:06 am

The only theory I can think is that as in today's armies Officers normally have a set of "best" or "parade" headgear and then the normal headgear for barrack use, use on the shooting range and where the liability of it getting lost, misplaced, stolen, damaged or dirtied are so much higher.

After all you don't use your best beret to collect spent brass on the firing range !

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Todays Army

Post by zipperheads9 » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:08 pm

Most Armies Today do not go overboard on Pomp and Ceremony kit . I think your idea sound right about the period stuff .Some officers may have had a Parade Kaube and a fiald Haube.
Mark

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Post by JR92 » Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:26 am

Hello,
and a fiald Haube
I also think so.
For instance, in "Fort de la Pompelle", the helmet of Kuno von Witztum, a lieutenant in the 115 ème, killed in the Marne battle, near Heitz le Maurupt.
The center of the star seems to be enameled, but is painted.[-X


Regards :hello2:

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Adler54
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Post by Adler54 » Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:59 pm

Here is my Pickelhaube, sorry for the quality of the photos
Image
Image
Image
This helmet has never been disasembled, and the patina is homogeneous, so i think the spike is on this helmet since quite a long time.
Philippe

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Re: Spike General or Bavarian ??

Post by dave mosher » Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:41 am

PROGLORIA wrote:Hello
The difference between a spike of officer of General and Bavarian officer.
If the collectors do not know this difference one can be mistaken bus at first sight they are identical.
In bottom the spike of Bavarois officer is straight and comes to cover the base.the spike of General is bent and comes ON the basis ( (Nota ..and the 1 Garde-regiment.zu Fuss).
Sorry for my bad english :? but I wanted to give this information. :)
Now if collectors could bring photographs of...... Harbbusctrichter of Général ...normally this time it's ....straight !! :D :D
Merci beaucoup !
Daniel

Image

Image Image
Daniel

I think you were about 90% correct in differentiating a Bavarian (and Mecklenburg) vs. Prussian fluted spike. We discussed this before in a prior thread. The major difference between the two are the number of rolled ridges at the bottom of the spike. Prussians have only two ridges at the bottom of the spike, with the bottom ridge being rolled under and the spike sits on the spike base. The Bavarian spikes have the two ridges plus a third ridge (not rolled under) that rolls over the spike base. Your pictures and illustations show this beautifully (except your Bavarian drawing only has two ridges). Now having said that, this is the "ideal" text book situation, but as Mark has stated, I would presume Bavarian (three ridges with a roll over the edge )spikes would end up on a few of Prussian generals helmets...

Regards

Dave

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Re: Spike General or Bavarian ??

Post by pickelhauben » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:31 am

Hello,

Here is a post from the past .

Can any one to a side by side comparison between a Bav and a Meck spike ?

I think if I am not mistaked is that the Mech has a rounded taper from the base ridges to the point and all other are straight is this correct ?

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