Open season on identification

Now that is one heck of an observation and answer! Really nice to have a Turkish knowledgeable person on the forum. Thank you! =D> =D>
 
ukturk,

Perhaps you would care to comment on this patch. I have had it for many years, but have not been able to identify it. I know that some of the Turkish storm troops wore something similar on their upper left sleeve, but I think it was more of a square than a rectangle. The Osprey book on the Ottoman army of WWI shows it being red and white. This one is more the colors and design of a German Armee Oberkommando flag. This "flag" is mounted on a field gray wool backing and has a red Arabic number "18" underneath. Since German troops were attached to the Turkish command staffs, I thought perhaps this patch could have been worn by someone of that nature. I have seen period photos of Turkish field commanders with such a flag mounted on a staff. Anyway, I thought I would show it to you to see if you had run across anything like it in your studies.

Thanks,
Chip



 
ukturk,

Thanks for you thoughts concerning this patch. It never did look to be quite the correct shape to be the Turkish patch, but before the Osprey book came out with the color scheme of the Turkish patches, it was the closest thing that I had seen.

Do you have any source material or do you know of photos that could place my patch in the 1930's? I cannot see this having been worn after the Nazi takeover, as the construction seems to be of a much earlier type.

Regards,
Chip
 
Okay Glenn here is a real mystery–who is this guy? Based on the analysis his last name is Seubert. The picture on the front is of a Liebpagen from Gross Lichterfeld.


ps1710a by joerookery, on Flickr


ps1710 by joerookery, on Flickr

according to a friend the translation on the back is:
G. v(on) Rheinbaben
Regt. Elisabeth [= Königin Elisabeth Garde-Grenadier-Regt. Nr.3
(Charlottenburg) Garde-Korps]
seinem lieben Kameraden
Seubert
Hus(aren) Regt. 9 [= 2. Rheinisches Husaren-Regiment Nr. 9]
zur freundl(ichen) Erinnerung
an die Kriegsschulzeit
Cassel, den 28.IX.88

A S(econde) L(ieutenant) Seubert is mentioned in the Rang- und Quartier-Liste der Königlich Preußischen Armee und des XIII. (Königlich Württembergischen) Armeekorps für 1895 as belonging to this hussar regiment but "k. z. Milit. Reit-Inst." (kommandiert zum Militär Reit-Institut).

Then there is this guy which was sent by the same person at about the same time and the picture does not even seem to be an officer.
S(einem) s(ehr?) l(ieben?) Seubert
z(ur) freundlichen Erinnerung
an die Kriegsschule Cassel
Ad(olf) Wittmaack
7. Kgl. Sächs. Inf. Rgt.
"König Georg" No. 106
Leipzig, d(en) 20. XII. 88


ps1709a by joerookery, on Flickr


ps1709 by joerookery, on Flickr

Help!
 
Joe,

I think the photograph is of George v. Rheinbaben and not the later Major d.R. Maximilian (v.) Seubert. Rheinbaben was a former cadet whereas Seubert joined Husaren-Regiment Nr. 9 as an Advantageur. They obviously attended the same course at the War School in Cassel. Seubert was enobled around 1908/1909 and went into reserve status in Husaren-Regiment Nr. 7 in 1909. Recalled to service in WW1 he served as the Adjutant of 8. Armeekorps. Incidentally, there is a portrait of him on page 8 of D.H. Hagger's Hussars and Mounted Rifles, Almark 1974.

George v. Rheinbaben, born 27 Jan 1868 in Emden was commissioned into Garde-Grenadier-Regiment Nr. 3 on 15 Jan 1889 having joined the regiment as a Portepee-Fähnrich from Lichterfelde on 7 February 1888. By 1914 he was a Major (16.6.13 E) in Infanterie-Regiment Hessen-Homburg Nr. 166 and died 14 November 1915 as the leader of the battle and shooting course at Friedrichsfeld.

Regards
Glenn
 
Again, another photo to Seubert from Adolph Wittmaack. Wearing the uniform of a Fähnrich, the rank held by attendees at the Kriegsschule course. I shall get back regarding his career.

Regards
Glenn
 
Boy did you straighten me out! Now this makes immense sense before they took the officer's examination. I find it simply amazing that you remembered this picture from the old book. It not only means that you are sharp as a blade but that you are also old enough to remember this book! Thank you for your help–I look forward to the other individuals career. For those who do not have the book here is a copy of the picture cited by Glenn.

Click for large view - Uploaded with Skitch
 
Hi Joe,

I never forget a name :D

Adolph Wittmaack retired from the Saxon Army as a Hauptmann (29.6.01 C) and Company Commander in Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 106 on 11 September 1903. I can find nothing to suggest he served in WW1.

Regards
Glenn
 
Feeling a bit guilty, that I lack the knowledge to contribute to this topic / thread, I must say however, that this is one of the most interesting topics for me to follow; so much to learn here. My compliments for members like Glennj, Ukturkcollector, Pickelmax and all the others here. And of course thanks to Joe, who triggers with his period pictures all these brains, to offer their knowledge here. Thanks all for sharing from a simple bystander and admiring observer. :)
 

ps1729 by joerookery, on Flickr

Hessian belt buckle

I cannot read the shoulder strap. Almost but no cigar.

I think that is extra material on the helmet cover. You cannot see the visor trim so it must be covered?! At 1st I thought it was a cavalry cover.

Why is the guy in Mühlhausen, Thuringia?
 
Joe,

Mühlhausen was in the XI.A.K., nominally, Prussian/Kurhessen. I think this pretty much follows the line of previous discussions of the units from this corps wearing a mixture of Prussian and Hessian buckles and helmets.

Chip
 
I think this pretty much follows the line of previous discussions of the units from this corps wearing a mixture of Prussian and Hessian buckles and helmets.
Click to expand...

Chip,

I totally agree–but this guy's pretty far afield and outside of XVIII Corps. JR 32 I think..... Hessians :-$ :-$ :-$
 
Joe,

You can make out the number on the straps? The only prewar infantry regiment that had troops stationed in Mühlhausen i.Th., was I.R.167.

Chip
 

ps1775 by joerookery, on Flickr


12th Jaeger zu Pferde corporal wearing a Cuirassier officer's helmet.
A super confusing picture. When I 1st saw it I thought it was some sort of a Meldereiter. However...

from Marshall D.
The officer's Cuirassier helmet seems a bit odd for a 12th Jaeger zu Pferde corporal, though. The eagle plate should be a Dragoon style, but it's not. Also, JzP Regiments 7-13 enlisted men didn't have the crossbelt that this soldier is wearing. Rather, they wore the 1911 Cavalry ammunition pouches in black with Y-straps. I believe officers in these regiments, though, did have crossbelts like this. Perhaps this soldier had ambitions of becomeing a officer, so he purchased such accoutrements ahead of time?
I don't think Meldereiter troops bore anything but Roman numerals on their shoulder straps to reflect their army corps affiliation. This guy's straps have Arabic regimental numbers. The line eagle was no longer displayed on Meldereiter helmets after 1905, I think. They went to the Dragoon eagle. By the time the 12th JzP Regiment was formed in 1913, the black leather Dragoon helmet was prescriobed for Rgts. 7-13, which is another reason why I think the NCO in your photo was rushing things by purchasing an officer's helmet and wearing the cross strap.
 
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