The flags of the Kaiser Garde Grenadier Regt. 1 / I Batl and IV Batl on parade

[AlexSteve]

Alexander
Thank you for this
I had not seen this list before
I am 100 % sure about the 2 L H R 2 swallowtail as I owned it at onetime .
Steve

It’s probably because that only a part of the captured flags was selected for the parade.
For example, the list only includes 16 old cavalry standards, not all 32. What cavalry standards were also captured by the Russians, according to Your sources?

By the way, the another list of flags digitized. Flags captured by the Americans in 1945. Fact is that American list of flags-1945 included some things that Russian list of flags-1945: standards of JägRzPf 9 and JägRzPf 10, KR 5, DR 10 and UR8.
It is impossible to understand which of these flags were captured by the Americans and which were captured by the Russians.

Regards, Alexander.

 

[KAGGR#1]

Is the net sewn into the flag or is it like a sleave that encapsulates the flag ?
Nice flag !

The squares are sewn into the flag .They were trooped by the new Army after WWI.
They are silk and the heavy embryoid would stress and damage the silk
This helped to stop damage .
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

It’s probably because that only a part of the captured flags was selected for the parade.
For example, the list only includes 16 old cavalry standards, not all 32. What cavalry standards were also captured by the Russians, according to Your sources?

By the way, the another list of flags digitized. Flags captured by the Americans in 1945. Fact is that American list of flags-1945 included some things that Russian list of flags-1945: standards of JägRzPf 9 and JägRzPf 10, KR 5, DR 10 and UR8.
It is impossible to understand which of these flags were captured by the Americans and which were captured by the Russians.

Regards, Alexander.

I have a correct list of the flags taken by the Americans .It is an article by Reinhold Redlin .
He was "the flag man " I will try and locate it and scan it for you . All of these flags were given back
to the Germans . Less the flags removed from the poles and "lifted" by the G I 's
and brought back to the USA
Steve

 

[AlexSteve]

I have a correct list of the flags taken by the Americans .It is an article by Reinhold Redlin .
He was "the flag man " I will try and locate it and scan it for you . All of these flags were given back
to the Germans . Less the flags removed from the poles and "lifted" by the G I 's
and brought back to the USA
Steve

Here is the list from the American archive, 1940s.
Archiving 1940s.

Regards, Alexander

 

[KAGGR#1]

I have a correct list of the flags taken by the Americans .It is an article by Reinhold Redlin .
He was "the flag man " I will try and locate it and scan it for you . All of these flags were given back
to the Germans . Less the flags removed from the poles and "lifted" by the G I 's
and brought back to the USA
Steve

I have over the years seen several Prussian line Infantry flags in white
that were brought back to the USA by service men who removed them from the
poles . When all the flags were returned some were the poles only
but could be I D 'ed by the unit ring .I have seen the following Prussian Line Infantry
flags yellow ; red ; blue
My first flag was a white one
I also owned a yellow and a red
also an Eisenbahn flag
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

Here is the list from the American archive, 1940s.
Archiving 1940s.

Regards, Alexander

Thank you for this post
I have not seen before
this will take a lot of study as the lay out is very different
from the way Redlin did his list
Redlin also noted the poles only that were returned less the flags on them
Steve

 

[AlexSteve]

Sometime, I looked the digitized list of flags on the Russian parade created in 1945.

This list included flags of old regiments:
KR 1 and KR 5
DR 1, DR 8 and DR 10
UR 2, UR 4, UR 8, UR 10 and UR 12
HR 4 and HR 6
RHR 4
JägRzPf 9, JägRzPf 10 and JägRzPf 11
Jäg.B 3
I understand most of them returned to the West?

Regards, Alexander

Two from the Russian list-1945.
Standards are on permanent exhibition about WWI in The Central Armed Forces Museum in Moscow.
According to available information one UR 12 and second RHR 4.

Regards, Alexander.

 

[KAGGR#1]

Two from the Russian list-1945.
Standards are on permanent exhibition about WWI in The Central Armed Forces Museum in Moscow.
According to available information one UR 12 and second RHR 4.

Regards, Alexander.

Thanks
Great photo
Thank you for the post
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

Here is the count of Imperial flags taken to Russia at the end of WWII
Infantry 188
Jager Batl 4
Cavalry 32
Artillery 6
Landwehr Infantry 51
Landwehr Cavalry 5
Pioneer Batl 7
Telegraph 6
Kadet house 1
Steve

S. Wolfe well know dealer had a Pioneer flag and an Artillery flag .
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

Yes, of course.
This is a list of flags that were selected for 1945 Victory parade. It was digitized a few years ago.
It's typewritten text on 4 pages (in Russian of course). Mostly this list included nazi flags M1935. Old flags are listed mainly at the top of the first page.
This list doesn't include DR 3, HR 1 and HR 2 - exactly.

Regards, Alexander

Here is the center of the black swallowtail for 2 L H R 2
It came out in excellent condition
the Iron Cross pole top
and the unit rings
I got it direct from the person who brought it out
Steve

 

[AlexSteve]

There is another strange problem.

According to the above list, all 4 flags of the Gren.R 1 were captured by the Americans.
But in 1945, one Soviet journalist reported in his pretentious article about one of the “black flags” of this regiment in the Victory Hall of the Moscow Museum.
On the photo you can see the streamer.

Regards, Alexander.

 

[KAGGR#1]

There is another strange problem.

According to the above list, all 4 flags of the Gren.R 1 were captured by the Americans.
But in 1945, one Soviet journalist reported in his pretentious article about one of the “black flags” of this regiment in the Victory Hall of the Moscow Museum.
On the photo you can see the streamer.

Regards, Alexander.

Another interesting photo
I will need to check on this
Thanks
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

There is another strange problem.

According to the above list, all 4 flags of the Gren.R 1 were captured by the Americans.
But in 1945, one Soviet journalist reported in his pretentious article about one of the “black flags” of this regiment in the Victory Hall of the Moscow Museum.
On the photo you can see the streamer.

Regards, Alexander.

I think what you see as to the Sakular banner in the photo
with the date 1655
It also has a second date of 1685
This is not for G R 1
this is my Sakular banner that was brought out
It is for the KAGGR # 1 / II Batl
the reason the dates are there is because when the Batl was raised
they drew troops from G R 1 and G R 3
so they were allowed to carry the tradition .
When the American Army gave the flags back to Germany
they were on display at Rastatt
Reinhold Redlin did a complete study on the flags
Here is one of his books
on the cover is one of the flags of G R 1 for either I B or II B
as it has an 1813 Iron Cross pole top
shown inside the book is the flag of G R 1 / Fusilier Batl
A color photo taken in the 1980's shows G R 1 / IV Batl
because the pole top is a cypher
so not sure that the Russians got the G R 1 flags ?
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

I think what you see as to the Sakular banner in the photo
with the date 1655
It also has a second date of 1685
This is not for G R 1
this is my Sakular banner that was brought out
It is for the KAGGR # 1 / II Batl
the reason the dates are there is because when the Batl was raised
they drew troops from G R 1 and G R 3
so they were allowed to carry the tradition .
When the American Army gave the flags back to Germany
they were on display at Rastatt
Reinhold Redlin did a complete study on the flags
Here is one of his books
on the cover is one of the flags of G R 1 for either I B or II B
as it has an 1813 Iron Cross pole top
shown inside the book is the flag of G R 1 / Fusilier Batl
A color photo taken in the 1980's shows G R 1 / IV Batl
because the pole top is a cypher
so not sure that the Russians got the G R 1 flags ?
SteveView attachment 25872View attachment 25873View attachment 25874View attachment 25875View attachment 25876

The Sakular Banners of G R 1 have the following dates
In the leg is 1655
in the top bow is 1755 and 1855
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

I think what you see as to the Sakular banner in the photo
with the date 1655
It also has a second date of 1685
This is not for G R 1
this is my Sakular banner that was brought out
It is for the KAGGR # 1 / II Batl
the reason the dates are there is because when the Batl was raised
they drew troops from G R 1 and G R 3
so they were allowed to carry the tradition .
When the American Army gave the flags back to Germany
they were on display at Rastatt
Reinhold Redlin did a complete study on the flags
Here is one of his books
on the cover is one of the flags of G R 1 for either I B or II B
as it has an 1813 Iron Cross pole top
shown inside the book is the flag of G R 1 / Fusilier Batl
A color photo taken in the 1980's shows G R 1 / IV Batl
because the pole top is a cypher
so not sure that the Russians got the G R 1 flags ?
SteveView attachment 25872View attachment 25873View attachment 25874View attachment 25875View attachment 25876

My list confirms
NO Grenadier Regt 1 flags were taken to Moscow
Steve

 

[JzPf]

The squares are sewn into the flag .They were trooped by the new Army after WWI.
They are silk and the heavy embryoid would stress and damage the silk
This helped to stop damage .
Steve

Steve,
My 4x4 Infantry flag is very fragile, you are absolutely correct, the weight of the embroidery can tear the silk if not handled carefully.
Dennis

 

[JzPf]

S. Wolfe well know dealer had a Pioneer flag and an Artillery flag .
Steve

Steve,

I believe this is the Artillery flag that Wolfe had. It was offered to me via Jason B. The pole ring was stamped F.A.R. 12

Dennis

 

[KAGGR#1]

Steve,

I believe this is the Artillery flag that Wolfe had. It was offered to me via Jason B. The pole ring was stamped F.A.R. 12

Dennis

View attachment 25877

Dennis
Thanks for the post and the photo
The flag is in excellent condition
I think that Jason took most of the Imperial flags that Wolfe had
Did you obtain the flag ?
Steve

 

[JzPf]

Dennis
Thanks for the post and the photo
The flag is in excellent condition
I think that Jason took most of the Imperial flags that Wolfe had
Did you obtain the flag ?
Steve

Steve,
No, the asking price was too high. The flag ended up in a Hermann auction but did not sell, (unless it went as an unsold lot) Not sure where it is today, but it was in beautiful condition.
Dennis

 

[KAGGR#1]

Steve,
No, the asking price was too high. The flag ended up in a Hermann auction but did not sell, (unless it went as an unsold lot) Not sure where it is today, but it was in beautiful condition.
Dennis

I think that Jason keeps the J z P flag and the U R 2 flag for his own collection .
Steve