KAGGR#1
Well-known member
Most are for battles that the Regt / Batl were in over the years .
Steve
The flags of the Kaiser Garde Grenadier Regt. 1 / I Batl and IV Batl on parade
- Thread starter KAGGR#1
- Start date
Steve
KAGGR#1
Well-known member
I have the complete card album .
It shows every regiment
If there is one regiment that you want to know about
I will look it up for you
just let me know
Steve
KIR145
Well-known member
Steve,
yes exactly - the story behind this flag auction in 1999, after the fall of the wall in an East German school (on the attic) these twelve flags (incl. accessories) should have been found!??? So or so similarly the story was told me - but no idea this is really the truth!!!
What happened with all the flags after the 1st World War, I unfortunately do not know. Some of the flags (for example from the IVth, XVth, XVIth, XVIIIth, XXIth army corps*) came from the cathedral of Magdeburg to the War Ministry in Berlin around 1919.
Best regards, Jens
*: http://f15919.nexusboard.de/t170f15-Abschied-von-den-Fahnen-des-IV-Armeekorps.html
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KAGGR#1
Well-known member
IF I remember correctly from 1999 I was at that time talking with Jan Kube by phone .
Because of the lawsuit Kube was not sure that he would have the auction but he was holding all of the bids
I think that he told me that a lady had brought in all the flags and parts to be sold
My memory tells me that Kube said she had "discovered " the flags hidden away
maybe like in a mine ?
I know that during WWII some of the flags were hidden down in a salt mine
By the way one of the flags sold was the blue flag of KIR 145
It was bought by a collector in Belgium
He later offered the flag to me because his live in girlfriend was going to divorce him
I did not buy it and I never did know where it ended up
Some years ago an American collector / dealer was able to get into a Russian museum
and by spending a large amount of money to make improvements to the museum
was able to select of great Imperial flags as payment
I was able to get photos of some of the flags brought out
and to trade for a couple of them .
On another note the A K of U S Army General Patton rounded up quite a few of the
Alten Armee flags and stored them after WWII
in the 1950's the flags were given back and I think that most of them
ended up at the time at Rastatt Museum
While in storage by the U S Army some of the G . I. 's removed the flags
from the poles and brought them back to the USA
Redlin did an article about these flags
Steve
mike kelso
Active member
Steve, thanks for the post. Your collection and knowledge is superb. The Bulgarian Fahnen book is one of my favorites.
KAGGR#1
Well-known member
For me of special interest are the 1870/ 71 K D M streamers
that were awarded to the Reginemts / Batls that fought in the
Franco -Prussian War .Each ribbon has the clasp attached with the name
of the battle. If they were in the same battle more than 1 time
the date of the battle is engraved on the back side of the clasp.
Here is an example of one in my collection . Grenadier Regt. 9 / Fusilier Batl.
Steve
KAGGR#1
Well-known member
Another favorite but much rarer is the handful of Regts. / Batls who fought
in the battle of Colberg 1807
Some Batls of the following regiments were at that battle and awarded
" Colberg 1807 " in the field of their flag .Also each unit was awarded a special
Colberg Parade Banner for their flag .While at first look they seem to be the same
but each banner was a gift from a different Prussian Prince and Princess.
The banner carries the coat of arms of the Price and Princess .
Here are examples from my collection .
Steve
KAGGR#1
Well-known member
To the Germans the most important part of the flag was the wooded pole
which held the flag . The flags were sometime made of silk and over the years
the silk would wear out .The cloth was replaced with a new flag but on the same wooded pole .
The flag of the 2 Garde Regt zu Fuss / I Batl. still has the pole that carried into battle circa 1812
Here are a couple of photos that show G R 9 flags .The first 3 Batl flags are worn out
and ready to be replaced .All of the streamers are still on the poles .The IV Batl has their new flag .
Steve
KAGGR#1
Well-known member
I forgot to list the regiments that have the Colberg Banner
KAGGR # 1
2 G R zu Fuss
L G R 8
C G R 9
Steve
pppara
Active member
Thanks a lot again for this post!
I have interest in this items, but they are quite rare and what is rare is expensive!
I saw one kdm streamer on EBAY, but like i don't know if copies of these items could exist i passed my way.
Very Nice item the banner with kolberg.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
I have interest in this items, but they are quite rare and what is rare is expensive!
I saw one kdm streamer on EBAY, but like i don't know if copies of these items could exist i passed my way.
Very Nice item the banner with kolberg.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
KAGGR#1
Well-known member
I will be happy to help you at any time about a 1870/71 KDM streamer
If I can see a photo I can tell you if it is O K
I have seen a repro yet
Steve
JzPf
Well-known member
Weitze has a KDM with four clasps if you wanted to take a look.
Dennis
KIR145
Well-known member
... ah ok a slightly different story. But now no longer important where the flags really came from. Thanks.
... yes - the IR145 flag was offered there again ten years later (116th auction, 02 May 2009), it was sold again (to an other European country!???).
And great items & pictures you have, thank you and best reagards, Jens
https://wiki.genealogy.net/images//a/a8/MetzFahnenXVIarmeekorps.jpg
https://wiki.genealogy.net/images//8/81/Metz16Armeekorps1903.jpg
https://wiki.genealogy.net/images//c/c9/IR145infDiv34.jpg
https://wiki.genealogy.net/images//7/76/KIR145Kaiser1911.jpg
Attachments
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KAGGR#1
Well-known member
Thanks .Many years ago I started out collecting German WWII Army .I saw photos of the "new " army
still trooping the flags of Der Alten Armee .Some of the older regiment flags had the Sakular
parade banners carried on the flag .I didn't at the time know what they were but I sure did like them .
IMO the flag is the most important part of the regiment .
Steve
KAGGR#1
Well-known member
Point of interest ; from the 1992 Kube auction I bought the unit ring for I R 72 .
Years later a dealer offered a copy of my ring saying that it was 100 % original .
In the photo above I R 72 is # 5 from the right .
Note in this photo the copy is shown on the left
see how they did NOT engrave the # 2 in the same manner is the real ring
The copies are good if someone has not had the original in hand .
Steve
JzPf
Well-known member
Steve,
I saw the fahnenring for HR 17 for sale, but the real one is still on the pole!
There‘s a lot of fakes out there.
KAGGR#1
Well-known member
Dennis
Correct
You would think that would know what to repro
and not one in a museum .
Did you & I talk about an H R 4 ring before ?
Steve
JzPf
Well-known member
Steve,
Yes we did! The fake ring was stamped as HR 4, the real ring is stamped HR IV. The devil is in the details.
Dennis