Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

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Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by b.loree » Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:43 am

Jim sent me some photos of another FA helmet that he ahs recently added to his collection:
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The helmet of Hans Schafer, wounded 6 times during WW1
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It does not get any better than this. :thumb up:
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...

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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by Sandmann » Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:47 am

What a beautiful Helmet... Congratulations and thank you for sharing :bravo:
Best wishes, Sandy

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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by Stosstrupp » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:46 am

Wow what a stunning helmet :bravo:

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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by badener » Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:33 am

:bravo:
It must be a Bavarian. They always smell the worst!

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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by pickelhauben » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:02 am

Wow fantastic helmet.
Wounded 6 times !!
What rank was Hans ?
Surly a high ranking officer would not be in the line of fire.

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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by Tony without Kaiser » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:23 am

Am I the only one who sees casting bubbles on the center Wappen??? :scratch:
Kaiser: 09 July 1997 - 12 October 2010.
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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by jimturinetti » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:59 am

Here's the bio I got with the helmet:
Flügeladjutant von Fürst zu Meiningen Hans Schäfer.

Hans Schaefer joined the Royal Prussian Army on February 28, 1912, as a flag-junker.
The son of a senior government and building councilor, he joined the 1st Silesian Grenadier Regiment "King Frederick William II" No. 10, where he was promoted to ensign on November 19, 1912.
After attending the war school, he was promoted to lieutenant on August 18, 1913.
As such he was now assigned as a company officer in the 1st Silesian Grenadier Regiment "King Frederick William II" No. 10. In this function he was also still assigned shortly before the beginning of World War I in summer 1914.
From August 24, 1914 he was then assigned as leader of the 6th Company of the 1st Silesian Grenadier Regiment "King Frederick William II" No. 10.
On December 24, 1914 he was then appointed adjutant of the II Battalion of the 1st Silesian Grenadier Regiment "King Frederick William II" No. 10.
In March 1915 he was wounded for the first time.
After that he was again used as adjutant of the II. battalion of the 1st Silesian Grenadier Regiment "King Frederick William II" No. 10.
From mid-March 1915 he was also additionally assigned as
wing adjutant of the Duke of Meiningen.
In the fall of 1915, he was wounded for the second time.
In early June 1916, he was wounded for the third time.
On October 5, 1916, he was promoted to first lieutenant.
From November 1916 on, he was again assigned as company commander of the 6th Company of the 1st Silesian Grenadier Regiment "King Frederick William II" No. 10.
In early April 1917 he was wounded again.
On May 1, 1917 he was then appointed regimental adjutant of the 4th Lower Silesian Infantry Regiment No. 51. At the beginning of October 1917, he was transferred to the 11th Infantry Division as an Ordonan officer.
He was then used in this function until 1919.

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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by Steve Nick » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:07 am

Tony without Kaiser wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:23 am
Am I the only one who sees casting bubbles on the center Wappen??? :scratch:
Didn't notice the casting bubbles, but I am surprised at the quality of the enamel work on the Saxon arms. I would have expected a higher level of workmanship.

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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by ww1czechlegion » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:53 am

"I am surprised at the lack of quality of the enamel work on the Saxon arms. I would have expected a higher level of workmanship."

Add me to the list. (I added the "lack of" to "quality of the enamel work...." from Steve's original quote.)

Sorry, call me "doubting Thomas", but I'd like to see a period photo of someone wearing this particular type of helmet. There has to be a period photo out there somewhere in some archive or Saxony Weimar or Saxony Meiningen museum or other German museum, or some important photo collection, if this helmet really truly existed and wasn't put together. If this really was or is a real "Flugel Adjutant" helmet for Saxony Weimar, the importance of this person would make for great probability that more than one photo exists somewhere of this person wearing his Flugel Adjutant helmet.

Best Regards,

Alan

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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by Tony without Kaiser » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:40 am

Steve Nick wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:07 am
Didn't notice the casting bubbles, but I am surprised at the quality of the enamel work on the Saxon arms. I would have expected a higher level of workmanship.
My view is astoundingly poor quality enamel. [-(
Kaiser: 09 July 1997 - 12 October 2010.
Nina: 23 April 2002 - 31 July 2015.
I miss my little Noodles.
http://www.kaisersbunker.com/

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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by ww1czechlegion » Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:12 am

member Tony without Kaiser:
My view is astoundingly poor quality enamel.
It looks like modern day era cold-enamel workmanship.

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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by 911car » Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:45 am

ww1czechlegion wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:53 am
"I am surprised at the lack of quality of the enamel work on the Saxon arms. I would have expected a higher level of workmanship."

Add me to the list. (I added the "lack of" to "quality of the enamel work...." from Steve's original quote.)

Sorry, call me "doubting Thomas", but I'd like to see a period photo of someone wearing this particular type of helmet. There has to be a period photo out there somewhere in some archive or Saxony Weimar or Saxony Meiningen museum or other German museum, or some important photo collection, if this helmet really truly existed and wasn't put together. If this really was or is a real "Flugel Adjutant" helmet for Saxony Weimar, the importance of this person would make for great probability that more than one photo exists somewhere of this person wearing his Flugel Adjutant helmet.

Best Regards,

Alan
Alan,
Notwithstanding the quality issue with the center, this pattern is correct for a FA helmet from Sachsen-Meiningen. Note the rare Garde eagle with the "Fuerst" motto.
I wish you - and all members of the forum - a very happy holiday season!
Bruno

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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by ww1czechlegion » Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:55 am

Hi Bruno,

Thanks for setting me straight that this pattern is correct for a FA helmet from Sachsen-Meiningen. I appreciate it! :thumb up:

I did see that it has a correct "Fuerst" style eagle on the helmet.

Would an original FA helmet for Sachsen-Meiningen have had an enameled Sachsen wappen on the eagle, or simply a regular, non-enameled Sachsen wappen on the Fuerst eagle?

Have a Merry Christmas Bruno!

Best Wishes,

Alan

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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by 911car » Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:08 pm

ww1czechlegion wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:55 am
Hi Bruno,

Thanks for setting me straight that this pattern is correct for a FA helmet from Sachsen-Meiningen. I appreciate it! :thumb up:

I did see that it has a correct "Fuerst" style eagle on the helmet.

Would an original FA helmet for Sachsen-Meiningen have had an enameled Sachsen wappen on the eagle, or simply a regular, non-enameled Sachsen wappen on the Fuerst eagle?

Have a Merry Christmas Bruno!

Best Wishes,

Alan
Alan,
Definitively, an enameled (green/black) gold metal Sachsen shield on a white star.
Cheers, Bruno

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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by ww1czechlegion » Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:00 pm

by member 911car:
Alan,
Definitively, an enameled (green/black) gold metal Sachsen shield on a white star.
Cheers, Bruno
Thanks Bruno! I learned something new!

I recall seeing Jim's example and other examples of the FA for Saxony-Weimar with the gorgeous enamel work of the House Order of the White Falcon on the Fuerst eagle. Being that Saxony-Weimar was a Grand Duchy, that's what makes logical sense to see on the Fuerst eagle.

Being that Saxony-Meiningen was a Duchy, and they didn't have a Royal House Order, I didn't know what they would use for a device on the Fuerst eagle.

Thanks again Bruno! :bravo:

Best Wishes,

Alan
Alan Schaefer

ww1czechlegion

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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by Sergei1877 » Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:06 am

jimturinetti wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:59 am
Here's the bio I got with the helmet:
Flügeladjutant von Fürst zu Meiningen Hans Schäfer.

Hans Schaefer joined the Royal Prussian Army on February 28, 1912, as a flag-junker.
The son of a senior government and building councilor, he joined the 1st Silesian Grenadier Regiment "King Frederick William II" No. 10, where he was promoted to ensign on November 19, 1912.
After attending the war school, he was promoted to lieutenant on August 18, 1913.
As such he was now assigned as a company officer in the 1st Silesian Grenadier Regiment "King Frederick William II" No. 10. In this function he was also still assigned shortly before the beginning of World War I in summer 1914.
From August 24, 1914 he was then assigned as leader of the 6th Company of the 1st Silesian Grenadier Regiment "King Frederick William II" No. 10.
On December 24, 1914 he was then appointed adjutant of the II Battalion of the 1st Silesian Grenadier Regiment "King Frederick William II" No. 10.
In March 1915 he was wounded for the first time.
After that he was again used as adjutant of the II. battalion of the 1st Silesian Grenadier Regiment "King Frederick William II" No. 10.
From mid-March 1915 he was also additionally assigned as
wing adjutant of the Duke of Meiningen.
In the fall of 1915, he was wounded for the second time.
In early June 1916, he was wounded for the third time.
On October 5, 1916, he was promoted to first lieutenant.
From November 1916 on, he was again assigned as company commander of the 6th Company of the 1st Silesian Grenadier Regiment "King Frederick William II" No. 10.
In early April 1917 he was wounded again.
On May 1, 1917 he was then appointed regimental adjutant of the 4th Lower Silesian Infantry Regiment No. 51. At the beginning of October 1917, he was transferred to the 11th Infantry Division as an Ordonan officer.
He was then used in this function until 1919.
thank you very much, very interesting information

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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by Arran » Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:14 pm

The enamel may have simply been poorly repaired...
Looking for German-made pickelhauben for foreign markets!

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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by JohnM » Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:07 pm

I agree with Tony.

None withstanding the poorly executed enamel attempt, the Saxon shield is a terribly made copy.

John

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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by b.loree » Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:51 pm

I am posting this for Steve who has some additional information:

Please post this for me Brian:

Reference Jim T.'s F A helmet that is in question to some .My reference is from a German reference from 1940 -1944 .There is no question there was such a helmet and front plate as shown in this reference .From memory I think Major Fiebig wrote the articles .There are several F A helmets that almost never see as there were not many of them .Fiebig writes what each helmet that the F A wore looks like .

Yes it would be neat to see someone wearing them in a photo but that is not always possible .I had owned a great photo of F A von Gillenhausen .He posted with a great one of a kind waffenrock with litzen but is not wearing his helmet .I own his shoulder strap as F A to Carl Edward .The cypher is " C E "and a silver tressa around the border of the strap.
Here are the pics Steve sent along with this email:
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The front cover of the reference.
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Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...

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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by 911car » Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:48 am

This eagle plate appeared at a Kube auction earlier this year. Herr Kube described it as belonging to a Sachsen-Meiningen Fluegeladjutant helmet. He added in the description that in principle ("Nach der Literatur"), the Sachsen shield should be enameled in black and green.
0b31cd38453b5f75e6cdb6ff38dd8096.png

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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by JohnS3rd » Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:38 pm

Jim has one great helmet and fascinating information about the former owner's service in World War I. What awards did Hans Schafer earn in the war? Did he serve in the Second World War? Thanks in advance for any more information you may have on Shafer.
Best regards,
John

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Re: Another FA from the Turinetti Collection

Post by KAGGR#1 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:15 pm

Glenn in the U K could answer the question about his medals .
Steve McFarland

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