Not a pickelhaube but what an ebay find!

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Not a pickelhaube but what an ebay find!

Post by minihelmets » Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:00 pm

Here's a good one. read the title and description,, anybody tell what it is?

Antique leather helmet Japanese WWII? Motorist 20s? Item number: 250412405202
Interesting leather helmet, could it be a japanese officers helmet from the second WW or is it a lady motorist cap from the roaring twenties?



http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6450 ... met001.jpg

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Post by minihelmets » Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:02 pm

Tried to leave a picture but something's went wrong

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Post by Peter_Suciu » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:56 am

It is absolutely not a Japanese helmet or hat or anything else military. I don't know what it is, but it isn't Japanese military.

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Post by minihelmets » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:32 am

It certainly is not Japanese I agree,, but it certainly is military and 100% original

Can somebody help me to post pictures!???

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Post by joerookery » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:42 am

VR/Joe
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Post by minihelmets » Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:07 pm

well I dont know if the pictures will come up but here goes again

Image

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Post by minihelmets » Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:10 pm

well I followed the steps but no picture has appeared. I think the instructions may be out of date with the picture hosting site

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Post by minihelmets » Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:36 pm

Oh well ., I was looking forward to hearing what some of you would have said about the hat but that's not to be.

I cant waste time on constantly trying to post pics with no success so I'll probably just be a reader and looker at the site. That is unless there is a simpler way to successfully post pictures.
So I guess I'll be of little use to the forum. Its too bad cos I coulda sent in some interesting pics from time to time to create a little interest here and there.

Anyway I tried.

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Post by Robert » Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:06 pm

Hi, that URL to the imageshack page is correct but you either need to insert it as an URL-link like the following:

http://img411.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=revhelmet001.jpg

Or you can link directly to the pictures in imageshack. For example, in the Opera browser I can right-click an image and copy its URL. Then insert this using the image function like below. You can only insert the URL of an image using the Image

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Post by Peter_Suciu » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:27 pm

minihelmets wrote:It certainly is not Japanese I agree,, but it certainly is military and 100% original
I don't mean to be rude, but I would like to ask why you think this is military? It is absolutely not like anything I've encountered, and as far as international headgear goes I have a very good general knowledge. I never claim to be an expert of anything, but that said I've seen a lot of hats, helmets, etc.

This doesn't appear to be military from any nation from the 19th or 20th centuries.

So could you please fill in why you believe it is "miltiary and 100% original." Again, not meaning to be rude, but your statement implies that you know what it is... so if it is military let us know. :D

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Post by minihelmets » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:15 pm

I dont think your being rude, However I think you are being (at the risk of sounding rude) a little dismissive because it's not in your field of interest.
I cant blame you really because the chances of seeing anything similar is very slim... in this case it's probably the only chance.

I think it would be unfair at this n moment to say anything about the hat because I was expecting a few more folks to have a go at IDing it.. so please forgive me at this time for not saying anything and lets see if sombody comes up with the right answer. I'll try and post some more pics after this to help with this little competition.. I hope some of you will participate. It'll test your researching capabilities ... well I can help by saying it's not pickelhaube research you need

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Post by minihelmets » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:33 pm

Naw tried again cant understand a word about urls img etc.,.. not very computer litterate Would have to have the whole thing properly explained, you will have to make do with one picture.

I'll have to repeat It looks like I'm not gonna be much good for this site

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Post by minihelmets » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:49 pm


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Post by minihelmets » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:55 pm


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Post by Peter_Suciu » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:44 pm

minihelmets wrote:I dont think your being rude, However I think you are being (at the risk of sounding rude) a little dismissive because it's not in your field of interest.
Yes, I will take your tone as being rude. In part because you do NOT know me. My collection is very broad; in fact I might have one of the greatest range of helmets of any of the members here. This isn't me bragging, so don't take it that way.

But I have a range of helmets, and while my current focus is (and has been for the past decade) on sun helmets, I've collected helmets for about 30 years. I have sun helmets, dress helmets from Europe and South America, steel helmets from both World Wars, modern ballistic helmets and many others.

For the record I have seen many interesting helmets from the 18th century, including many early sun helmets. While this somewhat resembles those, I must question what you believe it to be.

But I NEVER play guessing games on the origin of helmets. I don't think these guessing games really help anyone learn about things. I think it tends to have the opposite effect.

Finally, I would ask why you are posting this in the "Latest Find" section. This is where members show off their helmets, and is not where one gets into debates on helmets.

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Post by minihelmets » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:16 pm

Well It seems you are a touchy soul!.
I had no intention of being rude. But if you choose to take it that way so be it. I shall possibly have to hone my writing skills.
Regarding sun helmets, I'm afraid I dont have much interest but I really would like to see a sun helmet from the 18th century.
Again at the risk of sounding rude, which I am not I assure you. If your knowlege of helmets is as vast and wide ranging as you say it is then the helmet which I have shown would surely have rang a bell. No?

You don't know me either but like you I have many helmets but nothing later than 1907. I too have had a long long experience with them somewhat longer than 30 years I'm afraid,(I wish it wasn't) But in any case that is of no consequence other than that through this experience I was able to spot the helmet I have shown by recognising the leopard pattern for the helmet was rather out of shape when I saw the pics

Since then I have had other more experienced men than I examine it and they are equally confident that it is 100% original, So much so that it seems that it is probably the only surviving mans helmet in existence. Officers examples do exist and are well documented.

As to playing guessing games I was only trying to generate a little bit of interest away from the p'haube norm,No offense intended here either for i too have quite a few imp German helmets) after all there are surely folks on the forum who are interested in other helmets too.. Take yourself for an example. IT was just little harmless bit of fun something to see if there was anyone out there who could recognise it for what it is,., or have seen something very similar.
If i have somehow offended you I can only apologise. However I can't apologise for asking folks to have a guess as to what it is. There is no harm in that surely.

"But I NEVER play guessing games on the origin of helmets. I don't think these guessing games really help anyone learn about things. I think it tends to have the opposite effect.
Finally, I would ask why you are posting this in the "Latest Find" section. This is where members show off their helmets, and is not where one gets into debates on helmets. "


In reply to your statements above, There seemed to be no ruling over what one can say in the 'Latest find' section about ones latest find. Anyway as it is, I' was not posting the pictures and the question to show off the helmet. I only thought it would be a little change from the norm.

I'm actually beginning to s feel that I should not have done this. and in future I will think very carfully before I send in pictures from now on if indeed I ever do now.
I am not one for showing off helmets, and quite frankly I do find it rather embarrassing, for I feel that most folks think there is always an element of 'Look what I've got.,.bet you wish you had it' boast about that kind of thing. For that reason I am always reluctant to show other collectors the peices that I have kept.

So in saying that I shall end this thread and forget it ever happened but to put things right before I do so, I shall tell you exactly what this helmet is. and apologise to anyone who may have been doing a little research on it for their own pleasure

It is not a sun helmet, But it is late 18th Century 1790-3. It is a mans fusilier helmet from the french Revolution.

The helmet is not leather as was stated in the sale, It is felt, laquered black. The turban is Painted linen. The leopard skin pattern is typical French. The turban is folded up and tied at the front. This could be untied and pulled down to cover the neck and cheeks and tied under the chin(much too old to attempt)
There would have been a fur crest or a pudding shaped comb running from fore and aft over the top. Sadly this is missing but the holes and brass wire which once held this are still there.
There is a leather loop on the side which would have held the tricolor

All in all not anything like as pretty as later helmets but it shows early workmanship and if you can imagine it with a comb, there you have the forerunner of the Tarleton helmet of the British light dragoons which was worn a few years later.
So there we are, it should be in the Musee d'armee Paris soon rather than here in my hands making me make people annoyed.




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Post by Lost Skeleton » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:13 pm

Dear minihelmets:

As the forum pariah, I readily confess I found your introduction to this helmet fascinating. I further appreciate you sharing your knowledge of its provenance. Might one find an illustration of this helmet in one of the Osprey publications?

Thanks,

Charles
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Post by rob6218 » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:59 pm

Hello. What an interesting find! Care to cite your research sources? I am no expert by any stretch and I am familiar with the French helms of later years and yes, yours would be a very early example indeed. However, I am unaware of reference material that would help to substantiate your claim, perhaps the French museum of which you speak? The period in reference was certainly tumultuous and would have necessarily lent itself to a hodge-podge of uniforms and material as evidenced by the depictions of the art of the period. I do not believe that "The Committee of Public Safety" had established a uniform military code at that point and quite simply did not concern itself with the dress of the citizen militia as it constituted the military forces of the fledgling republic. Again, I am no authority on anything except what is in my own small collection and I do not doubt your belief but I would like to see some reference material.
Congrats on your find, it certainly is a curiosity! I do see the similarity between it and the English Dragoons helm, but personally I would like a little more supporting evidence on your claim. 8-)

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Post by minihelmets » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:58 am

I placed this on the forum so folks could do their own research. but It kinda backfired. I may have upset the moderator.
Anyway I contacted the museums and experts in the field and from them I was able to assure myself that I was correct in my assumptions.

[img][img]http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/188/revhelmets008.jpg[/img]
[/img]

I have posted a picture of the hat with another hat of a slightly later date to give an idea of size and I shall try and post a few pics of officer examples If I can find them.. after which I shall close the thread and allow the forum to settle down to pickelhauben again and apologise for this disturbance

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Post by minihelmets » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:17 am

Another showing a comb and metal side strengtheners and with leopard fur turban
IN answer to an earlier enquiry., Yes I beleive there are reference to this kind of headgear in the osprey books
Anyway that's the link broken for me. I feel like this is becoming personal,,, as if i have done something wrong and that I had better prove that I am right . so this is as far as I'm taking it because surely this is leading towards argument and not discussion

Image

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Post by Lost Skeleton » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:10 am

minihelmets wrote:I feel like this is becoming personal,,, as if i have done something wrong and that I had better prove that I am right .
You've done nothing wrong as far as I'm concerned. It's an old story with this (and other) forums, and I've seen too many solid contributors pack it in due to dust ups with the moderator staff. Please don't be discouraged.

If one had the time, one could search these archives and find countless quizzes and "whatsits." As far as I know, no one ever raised objection to them before. Personally, I find these challenges engaging.

I never would have suspected headdress of the French Revolutionary Army. The leopard skin pattern had me thinking African, Asian, and, even, Hungarian.

I don't wish to alienate anyone involved, but this thread should stand as an object lesson in fair play, personal conduct, and responsibility.

Charles
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Post by joerookery » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:52 am

Wow! Pretty impressive. I actually think this is become a real boon. As far as people being upset, I think everyone should chill out-this is about collecting hats. Mini we could always use some more background on your collecting to help frame the context of your comments. I think the greatest accomplishment besides seeing these helmets is that you seem to have cracked the code on posting pictures!!!! :bravo:

Peter is a widely read and respected author, and I'm sure you can get much out of each other's knowledge.
As the forum pariah
Chas, I don't think that is a fair characterization. I for one enjoy reading your postings and learning. It would be better received if things you wrote stayed positive. If there is something I can do to make you feel less of a pariah let me know. I certainly would give it serious consideration.
I've seen too many solid contributors pack it in due to dust ups with the moderator staff. Please don't be discouraged.
Well said. :sunny: :thumbright:
I do not doubt your belief but I would like to see some reference material.
Rob, I'm with you, this is about learning. :study: :study:

While there are no clear rules. This discussion, I think is more suited for the general headgear area. This is not just about Pickelhauben. Perhaps the moderators of this forum would consider moving this thread to that area.

I just want to collect research and learn and this entire line of information has been fascinating. Let's all chill out.
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Post by Peter_Suciu » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:31 am

Since I was the one who had gotten a bit hot under the collar, I will try and be the bigger man and apologize.

I am absolutely interested in learning, and researching. And now that you have shown what this is, I do find it fascinating. I apologize that we got off on the wrong foot.

I still maintain that these "guess what this" is not the best way to begin a serious discussion about any less common piece of headgear, especially one that is outside the general collecting arena of the forum.

That said I did contact a couple of colleagues to ask about it, and one suggested that it had the shape of a "Light Dragoon helmet of the American Revolutionary War period." So he wasn't far off.

It is a fascinating piece, and I would like to see more of your headgear. I can even help you post the photos, since you seem to be having some trouble with Photobucket.

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Post by minihelmets » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:47 am

well I must say, I thank you all very much for your comments and support.
Actually I had read some similar requests or sort of mini quizes on the forum and that is one reason I wrote about the hat and left it to folks to try to find out what it was I have. Indeed I would have and did expect someone to come up with the answer. No harm meant just a bit of fun and a slap on the back for the person who may have come up with the answer as to its origins..

Anyway that's all past and gone now and Perhaps in future I shall place any queerie like this on the discussion board .

I had no Idea that I was talking to an authority on hats.,I'm afraid I have none of his books. Perhaps someone could post a few articles from them.

I shall keep looking at the forum just the same and if I think I have something interesting to say or send I will certainly reply to topics or threads. Regarding posting pics I still have a problem with posting several at one time. It would help if someone would let me know how to send multiple pics. It would be very much easier for me.

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Post by minihelmets » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:09 pm

Oh I meant to mention, If you look at the picture of the hat alongside the a czapka(To show the size). This czapka is interesting in itself not because of what it is but if you look at the white waistband just above the lion head chain bosses.. you will notice some white flakes. This is the remians of Blanko..I would bet a pound to a penny this was done after Napoleons return for a reveiw.
This Blanko'ing of white cloth and binding trims I have also seen on mitres of the later period of imperial germany. I thought I'd better bring in something appertaining to the forum!

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Post by joerookery » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:24 pm

This czapka is interesting in itself
Would you happen to know if that one was in Herman Historica several years ago? I have a friend that specializes in first empire. I think he bid on this.... :coffee:
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Post by minihelmets » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:21 pm

No 'Fraid not this has only been in 3 hands since Waterloo The Lancer, The man who took it home along with many other items from the battle and who dined with the Duke later that evening and me. It was in the same collection since waterloo. I bet that could tell a tale or two eh.

It's amazing just holding it, your mind can run riot. especially after what they gave the scots greys,,, made our lads think too!

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Post by minihelmets » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:49 pm

HI J rookery What does you pal who specialises in 1st Eme think about the revolutionary hat /helmet. All comments are very welcome but especially from folks who have an interest in the early french
Thanks

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Post by joerookery » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:57 pm

He was pretty amazed when I sent him the link. He went on on about the condition and informed me that the one in the auction was actually a trumpeters hat. He tended to agree with you about the treatment of the white material. I personally don't have a clue! I do know that his pieces have been extremely expensive-- and I do mean extremely. However, he has a large front foyer with two curved staircases. The area is like an Imperial Napoleonic Museum and I think his wife is up next for sainthood.
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Post by Gustaf » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:36 pm

Hi All,
I have been busy, but I thought I would throw in my two bits. I like a good discussion, but they often tend to offend someone, this is a flaw with this type of forum, more often than not, there is no offense intended.
I agree with Chas, I like a good "whatzthis", but I do not agree with the comment about the moderator staff, moderators are a throw back to the time when this forum was plagued with spammers, and since Tony has fixed that, the status of moderator is of no importance, and no one sould be intimidated by comments made by a moderator, we are just members of the forum now (although I found out that we can edit our posts with out it being noted).
I have to disagree with Chas on his comment about him being the pariah, I thought I was. I am sorry that Chas thinks he is a pariah, I feel that is a title he does not deserve.
As for the helmet, The photos do not do it justice, I was not aware that the colour of the leopard skin was so strong, the colour is actually brighter with the hair gone.
Best wishes
Gus
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Post by Robert » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:05 pm

Naw tried again cant understand a word about urls img etc.,.. not very computer litterate Would have to have the whole thing properly explained, you will have to make do with one picture.
I cannot be of any help considering the helmet, but let me try to do a better explanation of posting pictures and links. Its all about the addresses.

If you uploaded the images to imageshack and want to link to the imageshack page, then simply copy the address that you see at the top line of the browser. Then in the editor of the forum, click the URL button, insert the address and click the URL button again. The result will be the address included in tags like this: [code][URL]http://img ... met001.jpg[/code]

If you want to post the image itself, then you need to find out its address. I just saw that Imageshack shows that address on the right side if you click an image. Copy the address in the Field "Direct" under "Links to share this image". Then in the editor of the forum, click the IMG button, insert the address and click the IMG button again. The result will be the address included in [IMG] tags like this:

Code: Select all

[img]http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6755/revhelmet001.jpg[/img]
Actually you dont need the buttons, you can also type the tags per hand. Note that the tag at the end always has the slash / in it.

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Post by minihelmets » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:40 pm

In answer to the three messages..
Joe rookery I think we were talking about 2 different things. I meant to ask your pal what he thought of the revolutionary helmet. I knew he'd like the czapka, what nap collector dosen't. Yes I remember that trumpeters which sold in hermann must be a good 10 years ago eh, I know the chap who sold it too, He still has one or two headdress set aside for a rainy day. I'd like to see some of your pals headdress. I like that period

Gustaf Thanks for the comments but i hope i have not thrown a spanner in the works, I'll learn with patience from all of you. Oh and by the way, the leaopard skin on the hat,,, it has not gone bald by any means I mentioned this before, that it is not leaopard skin,, it is painted linen, painted to give the impression of leopard skin. THis is seen on ORs dragoon helmets of the later period too

Robert I shall study what you said about the pictures and hopefully find out how to send multiple p[ics . Thank you very much ,,,very kind of you to take the time to help

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Post by Gustaf » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:38 pm

minihelmets wrote:
Gustaf Thanks for the comments but i hope i have not thrown a spanner in the works, I'll learn with patience from all of you. Oh and by the way, the leaopard skin on the hat,,, it has not gone bald by any means I mentioned this before, that it is not leaopard skin,, it is painted linen, painted to give the impression of leopard skin. THis is seen on ORs dragoon helmets of the later period too
Thanks, I did not realize they used painted cloth, but it would be one way to produce something as rare as leopard skin, as I doubt there was a large supply. I guess it is OK to throw spanners around, if you are from Blighty, but if you are from the Great White North, you should throw wrenches like like we do here (it is hard to tell from your accent).
Now that you are able to post photos, let us wee more of your collection, I am sure it is filled with things that rag pickers like myself seldom see.
Best wishes
Gus
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Post by stuart_bates » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:31 pm

Mini,

you state that your helmet is 1790-1793 and predates the Tarleton Helmet. However, Banastre Tarleton is shown in Joshua Reynold's portrait of 1783 wearing this style of helmet.

The British Light Dragoons started to adopt the Tarleton Helmet after the American War and it was officially ordered for all LDs in 1788.

I must, however, state that I don't like this "quiz" approach to presenting helmets. The idea is to present what you have with a useful description and see what comments it elicits.

Regardless, some very interesting information has come to light.

Stuart

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Post by minihelmets » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:50 pm

Sorry Gustaf I am tring to decide what you mean by the great white north and by the use of Blighty, and I cant decide whether you mean the north of England but by your little give away "wee" and the use of wrenches to show friendly aquaintance I can only presume you mean the great white north is Scotland. Well your bang on if you worked out in some way that I am too.
E'h weel Ehm fae Dundee,, wharra y' fae yirsull? didna hink thir wis onybiddy up here wis intristit in auld bunnets like m'sel. Guid t' ken tho, thi' ehm no thoanely ane.
The hoos's hae'in a lot dae'in' tae it at the meenit,,, turnt upside doon, so ah'th'ns pit awa fir fear o'pent and pentirs jinirs an ah'th'n and fowk thit gaes alang wee'd . It's a richt ald t'dae, canna be ersed wi nane o'thum bit whut's t'be done wull be ifehve any mair say in the mettir. An'mibbe whin this is a' ower wi eh'll post sum pictirs fir y'. No got tha' much noo tho. Mibby gettin too ald and watchin the shekulls . Mibbe mair t dae wi it noo is hae'in hur gie'in is a' likes o bahthir fir "weystin bra coappers on ald sojers bunnets that y' dinna even wear and yuhll nivir see the use o'!"

But it's up wi' the bunnets o' Bonnie Dundee!

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Post by minihelmets » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:58 pm

Hi Stuart bates . You are absolutely correct I was meaning to change that but as you see the discussion developed into something which I did not expect. Yes Banastre Tarleton did wear this style before this was worn and I and it is undoubtedly true the French took the design directly from that style. I stand fully corrected and hope others read your comment and take your word over mine for it is true.

Again regarding asking folks if they Could tell what it is.. Surely you dont think I meant anything bad by that, I myself like a little challeng from time to time . And stuart, be truthfull, and I say this to everyone on the forum,,, have you never been amongst your like minded freinds and pulled out something and said, Have a look at this,,, now what do you think that is?
I'm sure we all have at one time or another. Surely if you pulled out something unseen before by your friends you wouldnt just spout out what it was before letting them have a go at thinking about it amongst themselves. There is a great element of entertaiment to be got along with them all that would be missed BY ALL by just telling them outright.
No I cant agree with you, I think collecting is about giving each other surprises and other folks learning through surprises.

I mean to say, its not as if I was going to leave them hanging and not reply to any suggestions or replies. I had every intention of telling what it was but I was sure someone would have been able to tell what it was. So i can only repeat, I can't apologise for that. What apologise for something i like participating in myself.
Oddly In all my years I have never had anyone complain about me asking them if they could tell what an item was. Good grief! we start out in school life with questions of that ilk being asked regularly. Its just a bit of fun. All part of the charm of collecting,, anything! C'mon Stuart, Lighten up, I wasn't trying to be smart just because I KNew. I only wanted to create a little bit of entertainment amongst the forum members.

I peronally think that showing items and explaining all about them for no reason has something of a boastfull aspect to it. Oh please .,.,.don't take that the wrong way, others may do what they wish on the forum and I appreciate what they do but,., I Personally feel that if I did this that I would possibly come accross as boastfull no matter what kind of helmet I decided to show. Maybe its my personality,, For example I was in entertainment for many many years and still am when called for. However,I did and still find it utterly embarrassing to the point of cringeing whenever praise is given. I just can not accept praise Wheras some live for it.

So each to their own Stuart. Perhaps my little question was written in such a way as to let myself feel I wasn't a knowall and that somebody out there in the forum would have spoken about the hat for me instead of me telling all I knew thus taking any boastfullness out of the equasion. Yes maybe that is why i asked the question "can you tell what it is?"

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Post by stuart_bates » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:12 pm

Not to get too serious about this as there a valid points to be made on either side. But I have made my stance clear. I twigged that it was the jockey style, Tarleton, Light Dragoons etc. and it's a pity I did not enter the discussion earlier. I don't post on pickelhaube or any forums much these days. But you mention "a pat on the back" for the winner and that is anathema to me.

However, what is the point of posting something quite obscure and expecting people with not the slightest chance of contributing, because it is not their area of collecting and/or expertise, if not a form of "boasting"?

Regardless, your posting brought new information to the forum and that must be a good thing =D>

Cheers,

Stuart
Last edited by stuart_bates on Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Gustaf » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:17 pm

minihelmets wrote:Sorry Gustaf I am tring to decide what you mean by the great white north
Okie-dokie, I opened a can of worms there, Actually, round these parts, the Great White North is Canada, they talk kinda funny up there too. There seems to be a lot of folks that lean that way on this forum, and they always whine about our beer (it is the only thing that protects the US from invasion by Canada, as Canadians can not survive on the stuff we call beer down here).
I fare from Idaho in the northwestern US, about as far from Aberdeen as you are.
I do not mind it you are too cheap to buy anything new, I want to see the old stuff:)
Best wishes
Gus
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Post by Peter_Suciu » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:16 am

stuart_bates wrote:However, what is the point of posting something quite obscure and expecting people with not the slightest chance of contributing because it is not their area of collecting and/or expertise if not a form of "boasting"?

Regardless, your posting brought new information to the forum and that must be a good thing =D>
I am in agreement with my good friend Stuart on both points. First I'm very happy to learn about new items, and to find out other forms of headdress. I must confess that I meet too many helmet collectors who are extremely focused on one area and have no interest or patience for anything outside that realm.

And if I was short tempered it was because without going through EVERY uniform book it would have been simply impossible to determine the origin of the helmet. Hence I actually went to a friend, in this case Stuart, to say, "have you seen anything like this."

I will finally add that I was completely thrown by the notion that this might be Japanese. I see so much stuff passed off as Japanese that I often dismiss it. This includes post-WWII French motorcycle helmets labeled as "Japanese paratrooper helmets" and of course numerous sun helmets with a fake star or anchor applied. I am in the process of doing early research into Japanese headgear for a possible book... so anyway, I dismissed the hat far too soon.

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Post by minihelmets » Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:48 am

Ok OK OK I was wrong I'm sorry sorry sorry, whaooo never again! from now on I will take things very seriously and try not to upset antbody.

Why do I have the feeling that whatever I may post, there will be somebody who will never be happy.

so if I ever post any pictues On the correct forum I'll keep on the safe side and say nothing about them unless asked.

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Post by Lost Skeleton » Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:59 am

minihelmets wrote:Why do I have the feeling that whatever I may post, there will be somebody who will never be happy.

so if I ever post any pictues On the correct forum I'll keep on the safe side and say nothing about them unless asked.
Welcome to my world. ](*,)

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Post by Gustaf » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:48 am

minihelmets wrote:Ok OK OK I was wrong I'm sorry sorry sorry, whaooo never again! from now on I will take things very seriously and try not to upset antbody.

Why do I have the feeling that whatever I may post, there will be somebody who will never be happy.

so if I ever post any pictues On the correct forum I'll keep on the safe side and say nothing about them unless asked.
Whoo, back the truck up, First of all, from what I understand, you just acquired this off ebay, that makes it a "Latest find"
Second, some members like a quiz (I do if I know the answer:) and those who do not like a quiz do not have to bother with the post.
Third, if you try to stay on the safe side, you miss most of the fun.
Let's stir things up, but let's all try to do it to have fun and learn.
Do not worry about making everyone happy, make yourself happy, and let the others follow or fall behind.
Best wishes
Gus
OK, they are dolls, but they have kung fu grip! and weapons.

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Post by Raiseth » Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:30 am

Hello: I think the French helmets were extremely interesting. I meander through all the forums as they are an axcellent source of education. Anyway, if you have ten people in a room and they all agree, nine of them aren't needed - so I like to read heated discussions. Back to reading.
Bill
"The first casualty in War is always the truth" - Ubique

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Post by b.loree » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:57 pm

Well gentlemen it is great to see that once again democracy and passionate opinions have appeared on the forum. I use the word gentlemen because this discussion although heated in spots, did not dissolve into little boys in the sand box mud slinging that destroys some forums. So congratulations to all on an intersting provocative discussion about a fantastic piece of history. I do not by the way intend to be condescending in anyway here. As those forum members who have met me will tell you, I tend to be a bit laid back and do not sweat the small stuff. However, I do realise that there are other personality types amongst my collector friends who do care and I value them tremendously. So no one should stop posting, everyone has a right to an opinion and the right to defend that opinion providing we maintain a respect for each other. I also like the thrust and parry of heated discussions amongst intelligent people. By the way I believe that the first quiz type posting was introduced by my very meticulously minded and excellent friend one T Schnurr. I am surprised that he did not join in this discussion. I believe his intent was to challenge people and get them thinking. All the best, Brian
Last edited by b.loree on Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Gustaf » Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:45 am

b.loree wrote:, did not dissolve into little boys in the sand box mud slinging that destroys some forums.
That is because no one claimed the North Pole for their own country, or cast doubts on the nationality of Santa Claus, all that aside, it is still nice to have you posting.
Best wishes
Gus
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Post by b.loree » Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:34 pm

To Gus et al, I will try and do better on postings. My life has changed since all of this was started but my love of these pointy hats and militaria in general is still there. Gus, as usual your remarks concern us lucky few who live north of the 49th (Canada). I think there is a bit of envy there but you did have that small grenade problem when crossing the border that one time. If you want, perhaps I could sponsor you but you would have to get rid of all them "shootin irons" of yours before you could enjoy the free health care up here. But as usual, I digress..... regarding this post, it was great to see newer guys... eg. Mini involved as well as Chas, Joe, Gus Peter, Rob, Stuart etc. I note "Mini" that you have 27 posts since joining in July, that is great! So many guys join and then do not participate, please everyone, do not back off simply because you may get questioned or challenged. Ninety percent of the time you will get the help or answer you need. The other 10% thank God, we get some passion and discussion...how boring would life be if we were all the same?? Stuart summed it up when he said that at least some interesting information was brought to light. So that is where I am coming from, I learned something from this post. That is what counts for me so...carry on with the postings. Brian
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Post by minihelmets » Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:39 pm

AW WELL,,,Had a giud few whuskies th' nicht.. An',,, t' hell.,.. still braw ,t' kenh yiz ir aw there fir me!

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Post by b.loree » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:24 pm

As a half Scot myself, I can appreciate guid whuskie!
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Post by flasheart » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:16 pm

What a great find! This kind of helmet must be almost non-existent now.

Minihelmets, did you actually win this on ebay? The link doesn't work any more. Can I ask what it sold for?

Mike

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Post by minihelmets » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:14 pm

Well Mike, You're right it is probably the only existing example of a soldiers hat with the painted linen turban.

Yes I will tell you what I paid for it. I paid the enormous amount of 20 pounds which included shipping! Had I not spotted it and had it not been bought the seller assured me it would have been binned! After all who would be looking for an "Antique japanese motorist hat" which is what it was described as!
IN actual fact the seller placed a buy it now of 20 pounds inc shipping when I asked him what he would accept for it. (the "buy it now" keeps within ebay rules)
Yes it is quite a remarkable find. now it only remains to be placed into the right museum or collection.

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