Garde regiment no.1 m1860

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JiriLichy
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Garde regiment no.1 m1860

Post by JiriLichy » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:33 am

I have bought this helmet recently and it was declared as 1880model. I rcognised it is 1860 model and also I have seen marek on front from missing Garde eagle. Also needs to be said that I colect all stuff from Austo-Prusso war 1866 in Bohemia, as I was born in this area.

This is what it looked when i got it. Wrong eag, missing front rim but over all in very decent condition. The shape of leather was bit crushed from side.
Haube2.jpg
Haube2.jpg
haube3.jpg
helma4.jpg
First I started to clean the metal parts and washed the leather from mud and dirt.
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1st Garde regiment was a key to victory in battle by Koniggratz. "The commander of the Prussian 1st Guard Division, Lt General Friedrich Hiller von Gärtringen, now saw that the hinge of the whole Austrian position rested on the village of Chlum and its high ground. I the village itself, the Austrian brigade of Brigadier General Carl von Appiano had, as yet, not become aware of the tide that was about to break over it. Than, when it did, his troops were forced out of the village and streaming back toward the rear, taking their reserves along with them. One lone cavalry battery, under Captain August von der Groeben, endeavoured to stem the Prussian advance. Its first salvos were answered by such a crippling enemy fire from all sides that with the space of five minutes he was killed, together with 53 men and 68 horses. Groeben is little remembered today. A crude monument erected on the spot bears the poignant inscription “The Battery of the Dead.”

JiriLichy
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Re: Garde regiment no.1 m1860

Post by JiriLichy » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:03 am

I have cleand back spine and formed the spike base. Also as the leather was slightly wet from washing, I put it on round bowl and this morning was shape correct.
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Next step was to clean chin strap.
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Aftre cleaning dirt and mud from inside the marks came out: GR 1. left side and 4.C. 1866 right side. I believe this is for Garde Regiment No. 1, 4th company year 1866. Am I correct?
pic7.jpg
Now I have a questions:
- In one of the book about 1866 is written that GR1 had eagle plate from, silver. Can anyone confirm this? Any hints where to get this eagle?
- how do I clen the leather? Shue polish? black for outer and brown for inside?
- any idea how to make, or where to buy front wisor rim?

Thank you for your advises.

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aicusv
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Re: Garde regiment no.1 m1860

Post by aicusv » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:15 am

Black shoe polish for the out side will work, but anything you use on the inside may effect the color (darken it). We have a couple of professionals on this site when it comes to restoring helmets. Hopefully they can provide some good advice.
fezzes frigidus es

Arran
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Re: Garde regiment no.1 m1860

Post by Arran » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:06 pm

Here you can get your visor trim:

https://spikehelmets.pl/gallery/trimes/ ... 05/88.html

Nice project, by the way!
Looking for German-made pickelhauben for foreign markets!

Lars13
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Re: Garde regiment no.1 m1860

Post by Lars13 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:36 pm

Congratulations, well recognized for what it actually is, and I really like the regimental markings

Greetings, Lars

911car
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Re: Garde regiment no.1 m1860

Post by 911car » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:59 pm

This cannot be a 1. Garde Regiment (1GRzF) helmet, which had all silver trim. Your helmet used to have a golden colour eagle, matching the spike and spine. It may have been 2., 3., or 4. Garde Regiment zu Fuss, or Garde Grenadier Regiment 1., 2., 3., 4., 5. I cannot really make the marking out on your picture.
Regarding restoration, I concur with aicusv that polish should be banned from the inside. I should also extend this to the outside of the helmet. In my opinion there is nothing worse than a seasoned, damaged, incomplete helmet that has been polished to shine. But this is only my opinion...
I hope you can find the missing parts. The eagle plate can be found. Finding an original liner will be much more challenging.
Good luck!

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SkipperJohn
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Re: Garde regiment no.1 m1860

Post by SkipperJohn » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:30 pm

Nice project.
Your Wappen appears to be a model 1842, converted to 1860 regulations, and then dismantled. Very unusual.

Here's another example:

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=11787

John :)

JiriLichy
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Re: Garde regiment no.1 m1860

Post by JiriLichy » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:05 am

aicusv wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:15 am
Black shoe polish for the out side will work, but anything you use on the inside may effect the color (darken it). We have a couple of professionals on this site when it comes to restoring helmets. Hopefully they can provide some good advice.
Thank you - I will polish the outer side and wait for advice on inside part.

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Re: Garde regiment no.1 m1860

Post by JiriLichy » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:07 am

Arran wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:06 pm
Here you can get your visor trim:

https://spikehelmets.pl/gallery/trimes/ ... 05/88.html

Nice project, by the way!
Thank you Arran. I will contact the Polish maker. Hope the width will match mine. Also I have noticed they have screws and pins. Very usefull thank you

JiriLichy
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Re: Garde regiment no.1 m1860

Post by JiriLichy » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:12 am

911car wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:59 pm
This cannot be a 1. Garde Regiment (1GRzF) helmet, which had all silver trim. Your helmet used to have a golden colour eagle, matching the spike and spine. It may have been 2., 3., or 4. Garde Regiment zu Fuss, or Garde Grenadier Regiment 1., 2., 3., 4., 5. I cannot really make the marking out on your picture.
Regarding restoration, I concur with aicusv that polish should be banned from the inside. I should also extend this to the outside of the helmet. In my opinion there is nothing worse than a seasoned, damaged, incomplete helmet that has been polished to shine. But this is only my opinion...
I hope you can find the missing parts. The eagle plate can be found. Finding an original liner will be much more challenging.
Good luck!
You are right - the spike would have to be also sliver. There is no doubt it is a garde - the footprint of the Wappen is clearly visible. I guess I missing some letter in marking - it could well be GGR1. I will try to clean it bit more - I am only warried it will wash off.

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Re: Garde regiment no.1 m1860

Post by JiriLichy » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:17 am

SkipperJohn wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:30 pm
Nice project.
Your Wappen appears to be a model 1842, converted to 1860 regulations, and then dismantled. Very unusual.

Here's another example:

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=11787

John :)
John thank you - very interesting piece of information - I didn´t know this. I have another Wappen with added motto. It is a pitty that somebody has cut off the wing tips. Here compared...
orlice1.jpg
orlice2.jpg

JiriLichy
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Re: Garde regiment no.1 m1860

Post by JiriLichy » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:24 am

Well now I have been extremlly lucky!! right chin strap is almost taered in to half and the 10th "leafe" is missing. Luckaly I have torso of chin strap found on battle field which has 10 leafes - the last one is exactly the one missing!!! Is this possible?! :lol: :lol: \:D/ \:D/
podbradník.JPG
So I will remove it and place it in the helmet. Also I was thinking that I would sew the the two parts which are almost separated. Whot do you think? Is it a good idea?

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b.loree
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Re: Garde regiment no.1 m1860

Post by b.loree » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:45 pm

Warm water with a bit of dish soap added is the best way to clean/wipe the inside of a helmet. You can use the same method on the outside of the shell as well. Black shoe polish is optional, it is up to you , the owner of the helmet. Some people like them shiny others do not. A replacement liner can not be installed in a pickelhaube without taking off both visors....obviously a very big job. Regarding your broken chin scale, you have two options:
You could take the entire scale apart and rebuild it, putting in a new unbroken staple strip. I have a post about how to do this with pictures in the restoration section here on the forum. Second, use contact cement to glue the 2 halves back together then glue a thin pieces of leather on each side over the break. This obviously is the simplest fix and since the scales are just sitting on the helmet for display it should solve the problem. A very nice helmet by the way, a true survivor!
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...

JiriLichy
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Re: Garde regiment no.1 m1860

Post by JiriLichy » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:57 am

b.loree wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:45 pm
Warm water with a bit of dish soap added is the best way to clean/wipe the inside of a helmet. You can use the same method on the outside of the shell as well. Black shoe polish is optional, it is up to you , the owner of the helmet. Some people like them shiny others do not. A replacement liner can not be installed in a pickelhaube without taking off both visors....obviously a very big job. Regarding your broken chin scale, you have two options:
You could take the entire scale apart and rebuild it, putting in a new unbroken staple strip. I have a post about how to do this with pictures in the restoration section here on the forum. Second, use contact cement to glue the 2 halves back together then glue a thin pieces of leather on each side over the break. This obviously is the simplest fix and since the scales are just sitting on the helmet for display it should solve the problem. A very nice helmet by the way, a true survivor!
Thank you for your advice. Will try to glue it. When I finish cleannig of brass parts I will wash it in soap water again as you sugest. Well thinking of the liners taking out - I will leave it as is with all authentic stiches, As I said in my first post I colect all stuff from 1866 war rather than just helmets. So I can live without the liner. ;-) Thank you very much again.

JiriLichy
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Re: Garde regiment no.1 m1860

Post by JiriLichy » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:19 am

I had a replay from visor trim maker and they send me photos withs measurement. The price is 30,- Euro incl postage. Hopefully the size will match.
trim.jpg
Now I need to find the righ Wappen. As I am not expert on this topic I will need your advice. I was looking on internet and found this one. Especially the tail seems to round kind of circe shape on the footprint on helmet, Other types have eagle tail wide spread.
Here is helmet from War 1866 Muzeum. The wappen I found seems to the same. What do you think?
garde helm.jpg
garda orel.jpg

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aicusv
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Re: Garde regiment no.1 m1860

Post by aicusv » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:42 am

Somewhere on this site there is a posting about Guard Eagles explaining the differences, I can't find it to post a link, but remember reading it. Good luck with the helmet.
fezzes frigidus es

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SkipperJohn
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Re: Garde regiment no.1 m1860

Post by SkipperJohn » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:36 pm

aicusv wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:42 am
Somewhere on this site there is a posting about Guard Eagles explaining the differences, I can't find it to post a link, but remember reading it. Good luck with the helmet.
I believe this is the post you were looking for:

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=2999

John :)

JiriLichy
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Re: Garde regiment no.1 m1860

Post by JiriLichy » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:37 am

SkipperJohn wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:36 pm
aicusv wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:42 am
Somewhere on this site there is a posting about Guard Eagles explaining the differences, I can't find it to post a link, but remember reading it. Good luck with the helmet.
I believe this is the post you were looking for:

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=2999

John :)
Thank you John! It is exctelly what I needed. Surprisinglly I have chosen the right model! :D :D

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