Pickelhaube repair

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Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:50 pm

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Hello, I recently bought a 1915 Prussian Garde Pickelhaube and I am looking into restoring it. This guy I bought it from said he bought it from a man in Berlin who said it is a 1915 Prussian Garde Pickelhaube, so I am wondering if any of you would be able to confirm this as I am still not sure since the markings are too faint for me to see. I also need to know this because I need to know what I need to restore it correctly. Thank you and have a good day.
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by pickelhauben » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:02 pm

Hmmmm…

I looks like you may have a parts helmet .

It looks to have a uhlan eagle missing the garde star ( brass )

Brass spike .

Steele 91 posts with front visor and a brass spine.

They could have mixed and matched the parts in wartime but that is the wrong eagle for this picklehaube.
It belongs a mortar board type helmet.

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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:17 pm

The eagle is apparently supposed to be a replica. So what do you think the wappen should be, and do you think the spike is original?
Last edited by Prussian Garde on Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:20 pm

Also, do you think that I should buy a cover and a case (I see the case being used for officer helmets but I’m not sure if enlisted helmets had them too)
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by b.loree » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:30 pm

The plate also looks like a repro to me as it lacks the definition (crisp details) of an original one. A frontal pic of the plate would really help. It also looks like the holes for the missing garde star are crudely punched from the inside out....not normal. A pic of the inside liner will also help. It does look like a Model 1915 with grey fittings....side posts and front visor trim which has had a brass spike and spine thrown on it. Regarding restoration, go into the restoration section here and take a look at my "M15 From Illinois" post.... a helmet which I just finished today.
Ok, I just read your additional comments. Eagle is definitely a repro...brass spike and rear spine look original. This is an Enlisted man's helmet and not officer so no case. Original covers are rather expensive especially if they have regimental numbers stitched on them. You could buy an EM version for this This is probably a model 1915 helmet so you would need a grey metal eagle plate for it, you are also missing a chin strap and cockades to complete this.
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:39 pm

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Thank you and the liner is the thin brown leather like in a regular 1915. And what do you mean by grey metal eagle plate, if u can please show me an example
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by b.loree » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:37 pm

Ok this is an M15 helmet which originally had all grey steel fittings, probably Prussian as they are the most common M15's here in North America. You have the typical M15 undyed leather liner, model 1895's are dyed black. Looks like you have an extra hole in the front of the shell to fit that repro helmet plate. Originally, all helmets only have 2 holes in the front for the plate.They also have grommets in these holes so leather does not tear. M15's have steel grommets, M95's have brass. If your helmet has steel then it is a true M15. The 57 written in blue grease pencil is the size...57 cm. The ink stamp is the name of the manufacturer who made the helme. If you want to see pics of M15's and M95's go to the Pickelhaube Discussion section and scroll down to the post: Pickelhauben For Enlisted Men M15/95. Posted by Spiker in Sept 2018. The first pic posted shows the M15 and M95 Prussians, these are the most common pickelhaubes because the Prussians had the most Regiments in the German Army.
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:53 pm

Ok, where are the grommets? And is this Prussian Garde or regular because the holes look too spread a part for a regular Prussian helmet and lastly, where can I find the regimental markings
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by b.loree » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:23 pm

Take the helmet plate off, the grommets are steel or brass circles around the holes in the shell. Take a pic of the front of the helmet with plate removed. There should only be 2 holes on an original helmet that has not been messed with. I think I see 3 in yours because some one put in an extra for that fake helmet plate. Regimental markings are found on the inside of the rear visor but most M15’s don’t have them as if found by the enemy this would give info to them about what Regt.was facing them. Go back to my restoration post and look at the front of the helmet and you will see the grommets in the holes.
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:37 am

There aren’t any
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by b.loree » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:33 am

In my opinion, the larger holes are the originals and the distance between them would probably indicate this was originally a Garde M15.
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by aicusv » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:14 pm

Just to add to what has already been said, I have to agree that the front plate is a reproduction, spike and rear spine although original, they aren't original to this helmet. Front visor guard and spike pins are grey metal, which is what all the fittings should be. I believe this was a M'15 helmet once.
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:42 pm

Yes this is an m15. Thanks. Now I know which stuff to buy. I will update you guys during the restoration process
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:26 pm

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Would this be a good plate for this helmet?
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by b.loree » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:37 pm

That is the correct plate but not the correct metal. You need a grey M15 Garde plate. You also need to replace the rear spine and the brass spike with M15 versions. Can some member please post pics of a correct M15 Garde here so we can show PG what is needed?
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:18 pm

Ok, so a silvery colored one. Does anyone know any good places to buy these replacements?
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:45 pm

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I found a chinstrap for this, it’s an m1914 but I’m not sure if it would work, is there any difference between m1915 and m1914 chinstraps
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by b.loree » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:01 am

M 95-14 chin straps have brass fittings. M15's have steel fittings which is what you need. The fittings are both the same just different metal. The strap you have shown has steel fittings so it will work. These M15 grey steel plates sometimes come up for sale on Ebay. There are also militaria dealers online.
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by aicusv » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:12 am

What is being said is that the metal for all the pieces should be grey in color not silver. Here is what you are looking for: http://www.kaisersbunker.com/feldgrau/helmets/fgh02.htm. Good luck.
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by b.loree » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:17 am

That is a perfect Garde M15 example. Thanks for solving my problem by posting the link. A picture is worth a thousand words!
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:20 pm

Thanks. I will buy this chinstrap then
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:22 pm

Anyone know what type of chinstrap this is
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by b.loree » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:04 pm

Fireman helmet most likely. It does not belong on a pickelhaube.
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:43 pm

Hmm... the guy just gave me an extra random chinstrap that I didn’t know anything. Thanks.
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:40 pm

Found a spine. Is this good?
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by aicusv » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:54 pm

Looks good, but is it the correct size? The front visor guard and the rear spine come in different sizes to fit the helmet. Some times the size is marked on them, either on the top tab (one that goes under the spike base) or on the bottom (the one the rap around the edge of the rear visor). Good luck.
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by b.loree » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:03 am

Finding the correct length and curvature is the real challenge, the soldered prong in the middle can be moved. I speak from experience, you could buy 6 of these and still not get one to fit your helmet....front visor trim is the same. The other factor with M15 replacement fittings is colour/patina. That spine may fit but the patina does not match your other fittings, so the replacement is very obvious.
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by aicusv » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:33 pm

b.loree wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:03 am
you could buy 6 of these and still not get one to fit your helmet..
I have found a rear spine marked with a 7, so I assume there was at least 7 different sizes. I'm still trying to collect enough data on spines to come up with a sizing chart.
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by argonne » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:42 pm

My opinion is that I would not try to complete this helmet....It will cost you a lot of money and work for not a very good result...The shell is not the one that I would choose, without any good markings of a Garde unit... I would wait till a good and complete, well marked M15 Garde Haube comes along...Just my two cents....

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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:39 pm

Ok, what should I do with it then?
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by aicusv » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:36 am

Yes over the cost of reassembling this helmet may be more than the price of a complete one, however, putting it together might be fun. I would put the helmet on a shelf, then as I visited gun shows, looked over eBay, or crawled through some dusty old shop, I would keep and eye out for a part needed for the helmet. After time you'll get the parts and complete the helmet on your terms.
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:44 am

Ok, if I could fully restore it, how much could I get for it
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by argonne » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:40 am

Prussian Garde wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:44 am
Ok, if I could fully restore it, how much could I get for it
The common value of a very good untouched and complete M15 Garde-helmet, clearly regimentally marked is about between 1000 and 1300 Euro in Europe. It means about 1200-1500 US$. But then you have some good stuff and not a parts-helmet without history...

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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:27 pm

Ok. So maybe I could get it for around like 750-800? I just bought a national cockade. If anyone can confirm anything about it, please do so
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by b.loree » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:28 pm

Unfortunately, that cockade has been repainted...look at the wavy white circle....no good. There is a cockade/kokarde section here on the forum with lots of pictures of original kokarden. The value of anything is only what somebody else will pay you for it. Unfortunately, you bought a helmet without knowing what was wrong with it, hopefully you did not pay too much. All of us collectors go through this learning curve, we have all been burned when getting started. The best thing to do... post anything you are looking to buy here on the forum, let us take a look and give opinions. We can save you thousands$$$.
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:42 pm

Ok, thank you. The guy said he didn’t know much about the cockade anyways. I bought the Garde helmet for about 250 dollars.
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:46 pm

This was my first time buying a Pickelhaube. I planned on doing this as an investment and restoring it for more money and then selling it. Is there any other tips you can give me about restoring pickelhaubes?
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by LangeKerl » Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:23 pm

I could have purchased a stone mint M15 Garde Pickelhaube helmet at a show recently for $1000, and probably less. I passed, as did everyone else, because it had a repro chinstrap. Not worth the effort in trying to find the same condition chinstrap.

My advice is to stop trying to restore this helmet, as your "investment" may not pay off.

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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:39 am

LangeKerl ok, what should I do with it then?
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:38 am

Ok, I’ve decided what I am going to do with the helmet, I am going to buy an original front Garde plate that matches the color of all of the other pieces that are already on the helmet, I am going to sell it as a for parts helmet around 650-800. I have found a Garde front plate that is gold, again I am just going to buy one that matches the color that is already on the helmet, just let me know what you think of this plate and if you think that what I am planning on doing is good or bad, thank you.
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by argonne » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:39 pm

LangeKerl wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:23 pm


My advice is to stop trying to restore this helmet, as your "investment" may not pay off.
:thumb up:

No serious collector would be ready to buy such a parts-helmet for 650-800, because he will immediatly see the "work" =;
With a lot of luck, you will maybe only get the price you spent for the parts because nothing is matching ...

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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:28 pm

Then what should I do with it?
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by b.loree » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:05 am

Sell it and then look for a "complete" helmet in good condition.
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:08 pm

Ok, for how much? 300?
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:30 pm

First cockade has arrived and it fits fine
image.jpg
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Sandmann » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:30 am

I would keep this Helmet and give it an extra place in your collection. Also it is a Parts-Helmet, think it was your 1st one and maybe the beginning of a wonderful obsession :thumb up:
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Jaap Verduijn » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:27 am

I agree with Sandy. Pimp her up a bit without spending too much, and give her a decorative place in your home, collection or den.

By the way, better put your newly acquired cockade on the other (right) side :thumb up:
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by aicusv » Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:04 pm

I agree as well to keeping it, but then I never get rid of anything. As to the cockade, Reich -right, Land - left
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Prussian Garde » Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:10 pm

Ok thank you. But I am already committed to selling it. I bought it for 250 usd, spent 50 on it and I already have people trying to buy it for 400 usd (I’d make 100). Then I am going to buy one for 400 that I would have a better chance with knowing the history about. That would be one I would keep. I really want a Baden or a Prussian Garde one that I can at least confirm. Thank you for the input though, I really appreciate it. And yes, this is my first Pickelhaube. I also am buying an iron cross too.
Weakness is not treachery, but it fulfils all its functions.

Wilhelm II

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Jaap Verduijn
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Re: Pickelhaube repair

Post by Jaap Verduijn » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:57 am

G'donyah, Prussian Garde, you caught the bug :D !
Jaap Verduijn
Pensioned writer, editor, journalist.
Favourite quote: "Ninety percent of everything is bullshit".

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