Garde du Korps
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Garde du Korps
I have deleted these pictures as requested by the owner. B. Loree
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...
- poniatowski
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Re: Garde du Korps
I like it! Are those keyed threaded disks holding the eagle to the base? The eagle on my GdK has the same 'face', which seems to be a bit less detailed than some officer styles, but not as bad as what people here have referred to as a 'parrot' face. I've always wondered about it and would like to hear more opinions.
Ron

I really do need to know more about this....
Re: Garde du Korps
It's indeed looking good but isn't the eagle an Enlisted Men's type on an officer's base plate or is it just the pictures? Or is it just me?
Adler
Adler
Re: Garde du Korps
Hi Adler
I am knew to collecting Pickelhaubes, and would be intrigued to know why you think its an ORs eagle. The detail is stunning on the feathers and the crown is gilded the eagle is almost black the pictures do not do it justice. I can send you some more pictures by pm as i am unable to post pictures. I do have some more from the previous owner sent to me from the USA, it did come from one of the forum members in 2006. Hope you can give me some more help.
Tony
I am knew to collecting Pickelhaubes, and would be intrigued to know why you think its an ORs eagle. The detail is stunning on the feathers and the crown is gilded the eagle is almost black the pictures do not do it justice. I can send you some more pictures by pm as i am unable to post pictures. I do have some more from the previous owner sent to me from the USA, it did come from one of the forum members in 2006. Hope you can give me some more help.
Tony
- joerookery
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Re: Garde du Korps
VR/Joe
www.pickelhauben.net
The British philosopher and historian R.G. Colligwood said, "it is not
the facts that are interesting in history, but the questions and their
answers - and these can never be fixed.
www.pickelhauben.net
The British philosopher and historian R.G. Colligwood said, "it is not
the facts that are interesting in history, but the questions and their
answers - and these can never be fixed.
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Re: Garde du Korps
Hello,
could you please indicate more pictures from the beak and the eyes and the feet ?
The eagle does not look like an officer piece.
The Gardestern I am not like it.
Gruß Dragoner08
could you please indicate more pictures from the beak and the eyes and the feet ?
The eagle does not look like an officer piece.
The Gardestern I am not like it.
Gruß Dragoner08
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- poniatowski
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Re: Garde du Korps
Dragoner, are you saying the photos you posted are of a copy, or the GdK being shown in the first photos?
Ron

I really do need to know more about this....
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Re: Garde du Korps
Hi Ron,
the pictures of the helmet with the eagles are not so good, but the bill appears to be very round. That's not a good sign.
My eagle is 100% a fake.
Original eagle have an acute sloping beak. This eagle on the pics is original.
the pictures of the helmet with the eagles are not so good, but the bill appears to be very round. That's not a good sign.
My eagle is 100% a fake.
Original eagle have an acute sloping beak. This eagle on the pics is original.
Re: Garde du Korps
Could the helmet not be a manufactures variation. I have been in touch with the person i purchased the helmet from and he purchased it from Sergio, and he assures me that Sergio is the best on this subject Can we have an opinion from him on it, it would be very much appreciated.
Thanks
Tony
Thanks
Tony
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Re: Garde du Korps
Hello Tony,
of course, there could be a variation .
Originates the helmet of Sergio Semino from Frankfurt Deutschand ?
of course, there could be a variation .
Originates the helmet of Sergio Semino from Frankfurt Deutschand ?
- joerookery
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Re: Garde du Korps
I find this very interesting but I do not know or understand the difference. I could only find one close up picture of an officer eagle but I am not sure that it even shows the beak. Could you guys show me the differences more clearly or in a different way. I'm not trying to be difficult I just don't see it. Thank you.
kurt2 by Joe Robinson, on Flickr

VR/Joe
www.pickelhauben.net
The British philosopher and historian R.G. Colligwood said, "it is not
the facts that are interesting in history, but the questions and their
answers - and these can never be fixed.
www.pickelhauben.net
The British philosopher and historian R.G. Colligwood said, "it is not
the facts that are interesting in history, but the questions and their
answers - and these can never be fixed.
Re: Garde du Korps
Hi Dragoner
Yes the helmet was purchased by him from Sergio Semino from Frankfurt Germany. I paid a lot of money for this helmet mainly that it originally came from him. I would like to know more about the eagle head, i have also contacted the previous owner with my concerns about it. I did pay top end price for it.
Thanks
Tony
Yes the helmet was purchased by him from Sergio Semino from Frankfurt Germany. I paid a lot of money for this helmet mainly that it originally came from him. I would like to know more about the eagle head, i have also contacted the previous owner with my concerns about it. I did pay top end price for it.
Thanks
Tony
Re: Garde du Korps
Hi Joerookery
The last picture you have posted looks more like my eagle with the larger gap between the beak ?
Great picture
Thanks
Tony
The last picture you have posted looks more like my eagle with the larger gap between the beak ?
Great picture
Thanks
Tony
Re: Garde du Korps
Hi Dragoner
there is an identical officers eagle for sale on Helmut Weitze web site, you can get a better look at the head on that one.
Thanks
Tony
there is an identical officers eagle for sale on Helmut Weitze web site, you can get a better look at the head on that one.
Thanks
Tony
Re: Garde du Korps
Do you have a picture of the backside from the gardestern.
Re: Garde du Korps
So I'm completely confused! Is the consensus that the original post is a copy, or authentic???
Re: Garde du Korps
Apart from different plates and goldfinches on the crown ,Weitze’s , Dragoners and the eagle on top of this topic are identical to the smallest detail ,and if Dragoner knows for a fact that this eagle is an old copy …….
Cheers 
Ed

Ed
- joerookery
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Re: Garde du Korps
I don't see the difference. I'm not trying to be difficult it's just that I do not see but we are looking at. I would love to compare but I don't know what to compare. Help me Mr. Wizard.
ps1662 by Joe Robinson, on Flickr

VR/Joe
www.pickelhauben.net
The British philosopher and historian R.G. Colligwood said, "it is not
the facts that are interesting in history, but the questions and their
answers - and these can never be fixed.
www.pickelhauben.net
The British philosopher and historian R.G. Colligwood said, "it is not
the facts that are interesting in history, but the questions and their
answers - and these can never be fixed.
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Re: Garde du Korps
The piece of Weitze I would not comment, ok 

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Re: Garde du Korps
Please excuse my english is very bad . I can not well explain.
Scratch one an original eagle with a steel needle , so there may never come to light yellow metal. It must never be yellow metal visible.....never never never !!! it´s an galvanic - copy.
An original officer eagle costs about 10.000 , - Euro !
Do not you think that Weitze does not know ? ! ?
Scratch one an original eagle with a steel needle , so there may never come to light yellow metal. It must never be yellow metal visible.....never never never !!! it´s an galvanic - copy.
An original officer eagle costs about 10.000 , - Euro !
Do not you think that Weitze does not know ? ! ?
Re: Garde du Korps
Gunnar, I understand your posts ....no problem, so do not worry about your English. As to the discussion, I can not conrtibute because I have only handled one of these....Tony Schnurr's.
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...
Re: Garde du Korps
Thanks Dragoner
i know what you are saying and on mine the helmet is good but the eagle is a copy. I am devastated the helmet cost me fortune, i just looked at a guarde du corps helmet i thought about purchasing from Sergio an earlier model so i did not go for it and it has the same eagle i only hope the man i purchased it from in the USA refunds my money . how much do you think the helmet is worth without the eagle and would i be able to purchase an officers eagle ?, i do need help on this.
Thanks
Tony
i know what you are saying and on mine the helmet is good but the eagle is a copy. I am devastated the helmet cost me fortune, i just looked at a guarde du corps helmet i thought about purchasing from Sergio an earlier model so i did not go for it and it has the same eagle i only hope the man i purchased it from in the USA refunds my money . how much do you think the helmet is worth without the eagle and would i be able to purchase an officers eagle ?, i do need help on this.
Thanks
Tony
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Re: Garde du Korps
Tony please send me pictures of the eagle .
[email protected]
Your eagle is a NCO (Mannschaftsstück) on the officer-basis. That´s ok.....has given it !
But I can not say to 100% that of the eagle original or a copy . I need more pictures.
But if the bill is round , which is a bad sign.
Send me pic´s.
Sergio Semino is a german dealer. He has good and bad pieces.
Can you send pictures from the back of the emblem ?
[email protected]
Your eagle is a NCO (Mannschaftsstück) on the officer-basis. That´s ok.....has given it !
But I can not say to 100% that of the eagle original or a copy . I need more pictures.
But if the bill is round , which is a bad sign.
Send me pic´s.
Sergio Semino is a german dealer. He has good and bad pieces.
Can you send pictures from the back of the emblem ?
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Re: Garde du Korps
Here are more pictures of an unusual helmet . But it is 100% authentic !
The helmet body is magnetic ! No tombak ! It´s iron. It is a very late piece.
Look at the eagle. NCO eagle (Mannschaftsadler) with gold crown. But the Helmet body is an officer. It´s ok !
Gruß Dragoner08
The helmet body is magnetic ! No tombak ! It´s iron. It is a very late piece.
Look at the eagle. NCO eagle (Mannschaftsadler) with gold crown. But the Helmet body is an officer. It´s ok !
Gruß Dragoner08
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Re: Garde du Korps
Hi dragoner
I am unable to post pictures but i will have a good look tomorrow. looking at the helmet i do think it is original. it is at my friends at the moment but can have a good look then. The man who sold me the helmet is an honest man and i feel i should at least state that he had no idea the eagle was wrong. what i need to know is how much is the helmet worth without the eagle, hope you can help me on that.
many thanks
Tony
I am unable to post pictures but i will have a good look tomorrow. looking at the helmet i do think it is original. it is at my friends at the moment but can have a good look then. The man who sold me the helmet is an honest man and i feel i should at least state that he had no idea the eagle was wrong. what i need to know is how much is the helmet worth without the eagle, hope you can help me on that.
many thanks
Tony
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Re: Garde du Korps
I have been carefully reading the trail of responses related to the Guard du Corps officer helmet with eagle top herein posted. As a Pickelhaube Collector since 1962, I still consider myself a novice. Paul Pietsch, a great collector, researcher, scholar and author of the Lexicon Books on the Imperial German Army wrote in 1964, " even after spending a lifetime studying Imperial German military items I still did not know everything. No one does." He also wrote and that he still considered himself a "Putterer" in this field. Before I composed this reply I spoke with a number of other old guys like myself. We were all like minded in issuing the following statement.
My personal experience and research tell me that no one can make a perfect analysis of a piece of headgear by photos alone.
I have had the opportunity to hold and examine over 50 Guard du Corps helmets that were both from Officers and OR. I have owned a number of them too. In my collecting career I have had the opportunity to go to the back rooms of the WGM in Rastatt and the private Cavalry Collection in Vornholz. The variety of helmets, types, models, constructions and design are truly amazing. Please note that there were many makers and models of Garde du Corps Adler "Aufsatz" or eagle tops during its time from the early 1840's to 1918. Truth be known, the Juncker Company in Berlin were still selling Imperial GDC helmets into the 1930's.
Time and space does not allow me to describe everything that should be considered when examining a helmet. Before anything else is explored, the eagle should be weighed. It should be light weight construction as it was worn above the helmet body. The average weight of the Eagle without base nut should be between 450 and 500 grams. To our knowledge eagles were constructed from a number of metals that include:
Real Silver
German Silver
Silvered Brass (versilbert)
English Pewter (versilbert)
I personally have not seen an original Copper metal eagle (my opinion). This would probably be too soft and to heavy to wear.
I have seen "enlisted" quality eagle tops used on officer helmets. Many officers rose through the One Year Volunteer ranks. They upgraded the helmets as their rank and money permitted. I have in my collection such a helmet along with photographs of the soldier as a One Year Enlisted Man and later photos in full officer regalia. The helmet was the same. It went through upgrades with added stepped visor, Cloverleaf Rosettes, Officer cockades and officer eagle base.
At the most recent SOS in Louisville I was shown a Hessen 115 LGIR officer helmet that appeared to be a "parts" helmet. The helmet had extra holes behind the front plate, an EM style front plate, the impression of a round base that preceded the Hessen cross base, and many other inconsistencies. I opined that it was not a genuine piece. BOY WAS I WRONG. The dealer then produced a large box of documents and photographs of the owner of the helmet. The soldier was in a Prussian Aviation unit in 1912 then transferred to the 115th in 1914. He used the same helmet and altered it to meet the requirements of his new unit. One could plainly see in a 1915 photo of the soldier that he is wearing the obviously ALTERED helmet. The helmet was historical and 100% original.
Reproductions and altered helmets are the curse of every hobby. It is so with our hobby too. We should all be very careful in our proclamations. Remember, as Paul Pietsch said, none of us know it all.
All the statements presented in this FORUM are opinions only.
My personal experience and research tell me that no one can make a perfect analysis of a piece of headgear by photos alone.
I have had the opportunity to hold and examine over 50 Guard du Corps helmets that were both from Officers and OR. I have owned a number of them too. In my collecting career I have had the opportunity to go to the back rooms of the WGM in Rastatt and the private Cavalry Collection in Vornholz. The variety of helmets, types, models, constructions and design are truly amazing. Please note that there were many makers and models of Garde du Corps Adler "Aufsatz" or eagle tops during its time from the early 1840's to 1918. Truth be known, the Juncker Company in Berlin were still selling Imperial GDC helmets into the 1930's.
Time and space does not allow me to describe everything that should be considered when examining a helmet. Before anything else is explored, the eagle should be weighed. It should be light weight construction as it was worn above the helmet body. The average weight of the Eagle without base nut should be between 450 and 500 grams. To our knowledge eagles were constructed from a number of metals that include:
Real Silver
German Silver
Silvered Brass (versilbert)
English Pewter (versilbert)
I personally have not seen an original Copper metal eagle (my opinion). This would probably be too soft and to heavy to wear.
I have seen "enlisted" quality eagle tops used on officer helmets. Many officers rose through the One Year Volunteer ranks. They upgraded the helmets as their rank and money permitted. I have in my collection such a helmet along with photographs of the soldier as a One Year Enlisted Man and later photos in full officer regalia. The helmet was the same. It went through upgrades with added stepped visor, Cloverleaf Rosettes, Officer cockades and officer eagle base.
At the most recent SOS in Louisville I was shown a Hessen 115 LGIR officer helmet that appeared to be a "parts" helmet. The helmet had extra holes behind the front plate, an EM style front plate, the impression of a round base that preceded the Hessen cross base, and many other inconsistencies. I opined that it was not a genuine piece. BOY WAS I WRONG. The dealer then produced a large box of documents and photographs of the owner of the helmet. The soldier was in a Prussian Aviation unit in 1912 then transferred to the 115th in 1914. He used the same helmet and altered it to meet the requirements of his new unit. One could plainly see in a 1915 photo of the soldier that he is wearing the obviously ALTERED helmet. The helmet was historical and 100% original.
Reproductions and altered helmets are the curse of every hobby. It is so with our hobby too. We should all be very careful in our proclamations. Remember, as Paul Pietsch said, none of us know it all.
All the statements presented in this FORUM are opinions only.
- joerookery
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Re: Garde du Korps
What he said!
: Below is the article link

http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/UpgadeKurr.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/UpgadeKurr.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

VR/Joe
www.pickelhauben.net
The British philosopher and historian R.G. Colligwood said, "it is not
the facts that are interesting in history, but the questions and their
answers - and these can never be fixed.
www.pickelhauben.net
The British philosopher and historian R.G. Colligwood said, "it is not
the facts that are interesting in history, but the questions and their
answers - and these can never be fixed.
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Re: Garde du Korps
It is true , they are all just opinions . But the opinions are based on years of experience .
to identify a eagle just about the weight , unfortunately, does not work . My Copy weighs 574 grams .
It is absolutely true that there were different eagle models. But never brass or copper. Zinc, silver and nickel silver are known . The Eagle consisted of 16 parts .
An eagle of 1843 is not comparable with an eagle of 1910th.
There were many differences.
Gruß Dragoner08
to identify a eagle just about the weight , unfortunately, does not work . My Copy weighs 574 grams .
It is absolutely true that there were different eagle models. But never brass or copper. Zinc, silver and nickel silver are known . The Eagle consisted of 16 parts .
An eagle of 1843 is not comparable with an eagle of 1910th.
There were many differences.
Gruß Dragoner08
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Re: Garde du Korps
I am sorry. You must of misread my post. The weight of an eagle is only an initial part of the examination. An original eagle must be lightweight at under 500 grams. An eagle weighing 524 grams is too heavy and thus a COPY as you indicated.
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Re: Garde du Korps
Excuse my english is very bad.
Re: Garde du Korps
Thank you Randy. Very helpful, and likely to save me from a costly mistake at some point in the future!
P.S. I own and love your book.
P.S. I own and love your book.
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Re: Garde du Korps
Please send more pic´s.
Is the eagle from Ebay ?
Is the eagle from Ebay ?
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Re: Garde du Korps
Richard, I think, the eagle is ok.
Gruß Dragoner08
Gruß Dragoner08
Re: Garde du Korps
Seems I forgot about this interesting thread
...
Anyway, as Randy said, many things were not according the rules, but as we are collectors, we try to find the pieces that are according the regulations unless... there is provenance of the "wrong" object being used during the period.
So, in this case the first pictures gave me the impression that the eagle is an enlisted man's model on an officer's base. Here you have some pictures of my officer's and enlisted model for comparison. The off. is in 100% mint condition with all its frosted silver, the enlisted eagle has some patina but the crown is still nice silver colour (shows a bit yellowish in the pictures but it is silver). I see Dragoner8 already used one of my pictures
...
Imo one can see the differences between both models. Of course there are other variations depending on the maker, but the difference in quality is always visible imo...
Hope this helps in some way...
Adler








Anyway, as Randy said, many things were not according the rules, but as we are collectors, we try to find the pieces that are according the regulations unless... there is provenance of the "wrong" object being used during the period.
So, in this case the first pictures gave me the impression that the eagle is an enlisted man's model on an officer's base. Here you have some pictures of my officer's and enlisted model for comparison. The off. is in 100% mint condition with all its frosted silver, the enlisted eagle has some patina but the crown is still nice silver colour (shows a bit yellowish in the pictures but it is silver). I see Dragoner8 already used one of my pictures

Imo one can see the differences between both models. Of course there are other variations depending on the maker, but the difference in quality is always visible imo...
Hope this helps in some way...
Adler







Re: Garde du Korps
Thanks Dragoner08.
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Re: Garde du Korps
Adler...oh my God, what beautiful pieces. You are responsible if I night can not sleep today .
Can you tell me what your officer Adler weighs ?
He is perfect....wow !!!!!
Gruß Dragoner08

Can you tell me what your officer Adler weighs ?
He is perfect....wow !!!!!
Gruß Dragoner08
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Re: Garde du Korps
I saw some time ago a helmet with such Adler in this perfect conservation here in Germany .
The helmet was offered by a dealer near Hamburg . No Weitze !
Is that the helmet from Germany ?
Gruß Gunnar
The helmet was offered by a dealer near Hamburg . No Weitze !
Is that the helmet from Germany ?
Gruß Gunnar
Re: Garde du Korps
Wow wow wow that is the most beautiful GdC Adler i've ever seen 
