Thoughts about JzP Officer-Helmet

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Sandmann
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Thoughts about JzP Officer-Helmet

Post by Sandmann » Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:59 pm

Dear Forum-Members,

I‘m interested in a Jäger zu Pferd Officer-Helmet and found Article 50561 on trophiesofwar.com
It would be my first Metal-Helmet, that’s why I would like to know your opinions. What do you think about it? Any comment is welcome :)

https://www.trophiesofwar.com/shop.php?ps=1
2028E37C-E26D-4E61-9D15-97CC76478417.jpeg
Best wishes, Sandy

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coert65
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Re: Thoughts about JzP Officer-Helmet

Post by coert65 » Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:28 pm

Well Sandy, it has all the characteristics of a Kurassier helmet. I used to own a Jager zu Pferde M15 helmet, which was different.
The Jager zu Pferde helmet used before the M15 came out looked the same as the M15, only with gilded fittings.
So the advertisement isn't correct.

But to be honest, I know not much more about these helmets, as I only collect M95's and M15 pickelhaubes.
But there are some things about it that I feel worried about, but can't put my finger on it...

More knowledgeable collectors here will soon chime in I guess.

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Re: Thoughts about JzP Officer-Helmet

Post by 911car » Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:48 pm

Coert is right: JzP helmet shells should be black in colour (bronzed). Enlisted helmets always are, and officer helmets should be, but in fact the latter were sometimes silvered. Although not the rule, it seems it was tolerated. You find on the same website a JzP NCO helmet that is all silver in colour. The combination of a yellow spike, silver neck (Hals), and yellow basis is unusual, but you can see the same pattern in Larcade's book.
Therefore, I think the helmet is authentic, albeit sort of fanciful.
However, condition is not great. Look at the inside...
This dealer sells helmets in as-found condition: no cleaning, no restoration. This works great for all the nice enlisted helmets they have, that for most of them seem not to have been touched since picked up on the battlefield. On the other hand, such a helmet as for a JzP officer should be in great original condition (and the price would then be significantly higher). This is just my opinion though...

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Sandmann
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Re: Thoughts about JzP Officer-Helmet

Post by Sandmann » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:42 pm

Thank you very much for your comments. But as far as I know the nickel-plated helmet is correct for parades and in this version it has been used for Officers of Regiment 8-13 (acc. Field-Guide and Buyers-Guide). I like these JzP helmets just because it look similar to cuirassier helmets but they are „cheaper“.
But it is still a lot of money and the condition is something I'm not sure too and I would like to hear more opinions. Further I‘m not sure if everything is original or if you see problems with it. Thanks guys.
Best wishes, Sandy

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Re: Thoughts about JzP Officer-Helmet

Post by cptbob » Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:39 am

Do they have any more photos? If I click the link for more images I don't see any other ones.

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Sandmann
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Re: Thoughts about JzP Officer-Helmet

Post by Sandmann » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:03 pm

Yes, normally a gallery should open when you click on the pic. But I have the same problem sometimes... delete the storage and reload the webside should help.
But I can add also add some more pics here (source: www.trophiesofwar.com - Code 50561)
C872422C-091B-4F82-8CF1-FA9C159E1907.jpeg
A578C0D9-EB34-4D17-8962-215A0B93E6AE.jpeg
2AAA92BF-7D89-43E7-A573-43570D4A0D36.jpeg
0C22A2B2-4C98-4181-A455-DEDF5B290797.jpeg
D60781EB-D8B6-4211-8662-A17D97041F29.jpeg
Best wishes, Sandy

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Sandmann
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Re: Thoughts about JzP Officer-Helmet

Post by Sandmann » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:09 pm

(source: www.trophiesofwar.com - Code 50561)
771F03D0-016F-4E4C-8653-B86B9CB914F4.jpeg
0971AF63-EE3B-47FE-A9F2-EB0D3FBA7717.jpeg
Best wishes, Sandy

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Re: Thoughts about JzP Officer-Helmet

Post by JohnM » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:51 pm

Sandy,

This is a correct JzP officer's helmet for Parade for Officers of Regiments 8-13, as you have pointed out. As Bruno pointed out, the shells should have been blackened and of the pointed JzP lobstertail design but for some reason the regulation was not enforced. I have seen more chromed versions of JzP officer portraits and helmets than I have seen blackened ones. The regulation was also not followed for private purchase Fahnrich or NCO helmets.

I feel that $4k USD is a little steep for a helmet in this condition. I would offer $3k to start and see where it leads you.

Here is my example 2nd from the left.

John

ImageIMG_20171225_124025485 by John M, on Flickr

ImageIMG_20171225_124115083 by John M, on Flickr

ImageIMG_20171225_123916141 by John M, on Flickr

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Re: Thoughts about JzP Officer-Helmet

Post by 911car » Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:18 pm

The number stamped on the liner happens to be an inventory # of Historisches Museum Rastatt.

Beautiful helmets, John. Is it an impression or is the "neck" of the spike basis, on your JzP helmet, darker in colour? I am asking because this has been seen before on similar helmets.

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Re: Thoughts about JzP Officer-Helmet

Post by JohnM » Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:15 pm

Thank you Bruno.

Yes, the base is darker. However, in my case the chrome has started to wear away from the brass metal that was used for the spike base which lends to a slightly darker appearance.

John

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Re: Thoughts about JzP Officer-Helmet

Post by Tony without Kaiser » Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:27 pm

I love those images of your superb Metalhelme John :bravo:
Kaiser: 09 July 1997 - 12 October 2010.
Nina: 23 April 2002 - 31 July 2015.
I miss my little Noodles.
http://www.kaisersbunker.com/

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Sandmann
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Re: Thoughts about JzP Officer-Helmet

Post by Sandmann » Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:43 am

Thank you all for your opinions, I really appreciate it :bravo:
I see it was a good decision to ask here in the forum. I didn‘t know that blanc JzP was against the regulations but that it was accepted. I really thought it was a special regulation for parades, because Helmets like this have been sold so many times on military auctions with prior professional article inspection.
@John: Thank you for the negotiation tip, I will take it into account. You have an awesome collection of Lobster-Helmets, I love it :bravo:
@Bruno: Thank you very much for the great hint with the Museum-Depot no. May I ask how you figured this out?
Best wishes, Sandy

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Re: Thoughts about JzP Officer-Helmet

Post by JzPf » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:15 pm

Sandy

This Officers JzPf helmet looks good in my opinion, although the interior is not in great shape. The JzPf Officers helmets were to have a "black" body, but you'll see many "Interim" helmets that were nickel body. So here are a couple of mine, JzPf Regts 1-4 & 7 (5 & 6 had black chin scales) and an Interim helm for Regts 8-13.

Cheers

Dennis
JzPf Officers_edited-3.jpg

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Sandmann
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Re: Thoughts about JzP Officer-Helmet

Post by Sandmann » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:18 am

Thank you Dennis, Your helments are wonderfull :bravo:
Best wishes, Sandy

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Re: Thoughts about JzP Officer-Helmet

Post by Sandmann » Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:55 am

Just wanted to say that I didn’t buy the helmet. I've thought back and forth but still had doubts. And if it feels wrong I‘ll better save up a bit longer and buy my Dream-Helmet another day [-o<
Thank you everybody for your helpful opinions :thumb up:
Best wishes, Sandy

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Re: Thoughts about JzP Officer-Helmet

Post by Tony without Kaiser » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:46 am

Sandmann wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:55 am
Just wanted to say that I didn’t buy the helmet. I've thought back and forth but still had doubts. And if it feels wrong I‘ll better save up a bit longer and buy my Dream-Helmet another day [-o<
Thank you everybody for your helpful opinions :thumb up:
Good choice. You are far better off to pursue a top condition example. Like this one.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11246&p=79078
Kaiser: 09 July 1997 - 12 October 2010.
Nina: 23 April 2002 - 31 July 2015.
I miss my little Noodles.
http://www.kaisersbunker.com/

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Sandmann
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Re: Thoughts about JzP Officer-Helmet

Post by Sandmann » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:06 am

Tony without Kaiser wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:46 am
Good choice. You are far better off to pursue a top condition example. Like this one.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11246&p=79078
Oh man, this is really what I call my Dream-Helmet...a really beautiful Helmet :bravo:
Best wishes, Sandy

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