Opinions Needed Thüringen Wappen

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EiserneKreuz
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Opinions Needed Thüringen Wappen

Post by EiserneKreuz » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:20 pm

Hello everyone,

What do you guys think of this wappen?

http://gmic.co.uk/topic/70184-th%C3%BCringen-wappen/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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b.loree
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Re: Opinions Needed Thüringen Wappen

Post by b.loree » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:27 pm

Silver shield is Saxon but not from one of the Saxe Dutchies. The eagle is a correct fuerst officer plate but does not belong to this shield. I also never seen tin washers on the back of the shield holding it on. This suggests further problems.
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...

EiserneKreuz
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Re: Opinions Needed Thüringen Wappen

Post by EiserneKreuz » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:11 am

b.loree wrote:Silver shield is Saxon but not from one of the Saxe Dutchies. The eagle is a correct fuerst officer plate but does not belong to this shield. I also never seen tin washers on the back of the shield holding it on. This suggests further problems.
Thank you for your comments Brian.

I thought the shield didn't look quite right, and it appears that the nuts have been soldered.

So the eagle is good, just mismatched to the shield.

What do you think this shield would be from?

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SkipperJohn
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Re: Opinions Needed Thüringen Wappen

Post by SkipperJohn » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:21 am

There is a picture of this Wappen shown on Tony's website, from Der Deutschen Heer:

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/hp/hw1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

John :)

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b.loree
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Re: Opinions Needed Thüringen Wappen

Post by b.loree » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:03 pm

Yes John, but it is more subtle than that.....the difference has to do with the wreaths of leaves surrounding the shield. JR 94,( Thuringia) Oak leaves on the right side, laurel leaves and berries on the left. JR 95 (thuringia)......Star and Saxon shield, laurel leaves and berries on both sides of the shield so on this piece, it could be JR 95. However, the crown on the shield should be pierced to match the officer crown, so an OR shield and star placed on an officer Fuerst wappen. No frosting on that star and shield either. I did not have access to my references in the first comment, so consequently, the change in opinion. I have 2 OR's helmets in my collection from these Regts. There is a post on the forum showing pictures of the helmets and their wappen. I think it is called Dutchies Anyone? In the pickelhaube discussion area.
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EiserneKreuz
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Re: Opinions Needed Thüringen Wappen

Post by EiserneKreuz » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:29 am

b.loree wrote:Yes John, but it is more subtle than that.....the difference has to do with the wreaths of leaves surrounding the shield. JR 94,( Thuringia) Oak leaves on the right side, laurel leaves and berries on the left. JR 95 (thuringia)......Star and Saxon shield, laurel leaves and berries on both sides of the shield so on this piece, it could be JR 95. However, the crown on the shield should be pierced to match the officer crown, so an OR shield and star placed on an officer Fuerst wappen. No frosting on that star and shield either. I did not have access to my references in the first comment, so consequently, the change in opinion. I have 2 OR's helmets in my collection from these Regts. There is a post on the forum showing pictures of the helmets and their wappen. I think it is called Dutchies Anyone? In the pickelhaube discussion area.
Thank you for the extra information Brian, very helpful.

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Re: Opinions Needed Thüringen Wappen

Post by EiserneKreuz » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:00 am

b.loree wrote:Silver shield is Saxon but not from one of the Saxe Dutchies. The eagle is a correct fuerst officer plate but does not belong to this shield. I also never seen tin washers on the back of the shield holding it on. This suggests further problems.
Hi Brian,

https://www.zeige.com/auktionskatalog/H ... 199_e.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is another wappen with a tin washer. what are your thoughts on this?

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b.loree
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Re: Opinions Needed Thüringen Wappen

Post by b.loree » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:50 pm

I like that one very much, it is from JR 94 and the pic shows clearly laurel leaves on the left and the oak leaves on the right of the shield. JR 95 has laurel leaves on both sides. My reference here is D Laine pg 62. As to the tin washer, I feel that the one original nut was lost and the replacement would not turn down far enough on the screw post to tighten up the shield/star. So we place a washer on the post so that the nut locks down. I have found this problem on other wappen posts as well. There could be damage to the thread, verdigris, anything imaginable which after 100 years is causing this. If anyone sees an Anhalt OR's wappen (JR 93) for sale, please contact me. I have a helmet clearly marked to that regiment which came with a Prussian wappen. I know this was done, but it would still be very nice to put the proper pre 1914 wappen on it. I have an original Anhalt kokarde.
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...

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Re: Opinions Needed Thüringen Wappen

Post by EiserneKreuz » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:04 am

Thanks Brian,

So in regards to the first wappen I had posted.

The eagle is for an officier and original.

The star could be an OR from JR95 maybe original.

But the two pieces diffently do not belong together.

All state wappen attachments should be frosted.

Would this be correct?

I need to know because if the pieces are original I keep it for spare parts.

Many thanks

Alan

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b.loree
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Re: Opinions Needed Thüringen Wappen

Post by b.loree » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:40 pm

Hi Alan: In my opinion.... The officer eagle with "fuerst" is correct. The shield and star are not frosted and the crown is not pierced so it is not officer, they are not correct for this officer eagle. I would say that the star and shield are from a non officer JR 95 wappen because we see laurel leaves on both sides of the shield. JR 94 has oak leaves on the right side and laurel leaves on the left. So, in my opinion....you have an Ordinary Ranks star and shield from JR 95 on an officer fuerst eagle, I would keep it if it were mine.
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...

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