Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Ersatz Felt/Filz Pickelhauben

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Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by Spiker » Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:44 am

Image

Made a poster :laughing3: (95 X 62 cm)
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Ed

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by Khukri » Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:20 am

:thumb up:

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by J.LeBrasseur » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:19 am

Never seen that one before, very nice. oh to go back in time for a few minutes...

James
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by KAGGR#1 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:43 pm

Your helmet is very nice .
I really like that chin strap

Steve

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by Westfront » Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:24 pm

Great picture and very nice helmet :thumb up:

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by MG34NZ » Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:27 am

Fantastic! The picture is superb, I would love that on my wall ! And the Ersatz Pickelhaube is stunning.

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by Adler » Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:25 am

Nice!!!!

Adler

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by glenn66 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:59 am

Brilliant! :thumb up:

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by argonne » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:37 pm

Cool pict!

And the details are also pretty cool :)

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Image

Image

Philippe
:D
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by MG34NZ » Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:18 pm

Great detail, What do you think the other helmet shells are? The look dark coloured or black could they be pressed tin ?
Please place an order for me, I will take a box of each type.

Andy

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by edwin » Sat Aug 06, 2016 1:09 am

:thumb up:

Regards,

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by Spiker » Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:15 am

MG34NZ wrote:Great detail, What do you think the other helmet shells are? The look dark coloured or black could they be pressed tin ?
Please place an order for me, I will take a box of each type.

Andy
:-k Andy ,you are right ,they are all steel sheet helmets ,I have misled this post by portraying a felt helmet in front ,but after a close examine ,I can see some facts that point towards “stahlblech”.

Image

1 Not one helmet in the picture has a helmet without spike .
2 In front of the boy we can see insulation caps (left side corner of the picture).
3 There is a lot of hammering going on, rather than stitching.
4 On the feldgrau helmets ,we can see that the side posts have the same color as the helmet.

This helmet would be a better example.

Image

I think it’s safe to say that this picture is the production hall of R.Von Heyden Berlin 1914 … :-"
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by kaiser » Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:24 am

Looks like it is, the features of your helmet match pretty wel with those on the picture

This helmet even has the black underneath it,maybe thats why there are two diffrent types to see in that picture, the original black ones and the fieldgrey ones

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by Spiker » Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:33 am

Indeed Jonas ,these particular helmets are only feldgrau on the surface.
This is the inside.

Image
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by kaiser » Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:37 am

I have one in my collection that is entirerly black like most of them i guess
Maybe they where painted becose when there black they are kinda shiny and therfore an easy target in the field
So how manny that where painted that is someting that wil remain a mistory
This particilar helmet in this conditon is a rarety that for sure

Jonas

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by b.loree » Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:28 pm

I also would love to have that poster on my wall......Well done! I was wondering what the woman in the foreground...using the "press machine " is doing?? she has some wappen stacked beside her. I could see such a hand press as this, being used to install the M91 posts but I can not see any helmets near her. Also, anyone have an idea of what those thin violin shaped things are that we see stacked in the middle of the pic? This such a great foto!
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by Spiker » Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:01 am

b.loree wrote:...Also, anyone have an idea of what those thin violin shaped things are that we see stacked in the middle of the pic? ...
:-k Females ? :D :D :D
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by b.loree » Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:30 pm

My helmet from this factory. This is the most perfect and complete "kit helme" that I have ever seen. The only thing missing is the dome part for the snap fastener at the back of the liner. I bought it back in the 90's from Randy Trawnik at the MAX Show in Pittsburgh.
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A pic showing some of the unique features of the "kit helme"..... "V" notched kokarden, a unique system for attaching the wappen, and a very thin brass stamping, last, the filz scull cap. Other unique characteristics...no slider vent on the rear spine, 2 tanged M91 posts and the use of hex nuts instead of the usual square ones.

The helmet's pristine interior showing the 2 piece, very thin cork band which surrounds the edge of the shell. This helme is a size 58, so we have an "8" in the top of the shell. You can also see how the wappen and spike are fastened to the haube.
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The company markings on the underside of the front visor.... R v. d. H Berlin Sch. 58. There are 2-3 numbers/letters which have been worn away. This helmet could very easily be one of the ones stacked up in the picture which began this thread. I know of no other company that marked their helmets in this manner... stenciled in gold. R. Van der Heyden I believe is a Dutch name, ironically, I taught 2 VdH student brothers during the early 80's.
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by KAGGR#1 » Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:13 pm

Brian ;
Great photos !
Many thanks for posting

Steve

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by JzPf » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:06 pm

Excellent! Thanks for sharing.

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by J.LeBrasseur » Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:13 pm

I want to play too..

Couple of mine.

James

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by MG34NZ » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:06 am

spectacular helmets gentlemen, I would love one of these tin helmets but so far they are something that has eluded me

Andy

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by Spiker » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:20 am

Andy ,a pickelhaube collection without a stahlblech is incomplete ! :P just teasing…

Any idea who made the single piece helmet James ?
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by Khukri » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:27 am

We keep on learning ! Thank you gentlemen ! Great !
Francis

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by b.loree » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:35 am

Very nice James, we share a couple of similar pieces...I will post pics of my feldgrauer tomorrow. :)
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by Westfront » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:41 am

Very nice tins Gents. :thumb up:

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by Spiker » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:43 am

Indeed a very nice and complete example of a R. Van Heyden Brian. Hey you're up late. :)

It is no surprise to me that Van Heyden is Dutch ,”neutral” Holland also made a lot of uniforms for the Germans ,and a guy called Fokker provided planes , yes you will always find our northern neighbors where there is money to be made ,it’s called “being smart” :-"
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by b.loree » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:30 pm

Here you go James, the exact same helmet only with no markings/name.
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A good shot of the rivet which holds the liner band to the shell, there is a second one under the wappen and the 2 sets of M91 prongs holds the sides.

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A pic of the liner system showing the filz band to which the leather liner is stitched.

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This helme has never been cleaned and still bears the dried mud of the trenches. I bought this years ago, from Dave Hiorth who now owns Military Antiques Toronto. This was before he had a store and it came in a swap he made with The Simcoe County Foresters Regimental Museum. The Foresters are our local reserve Batt. He had some stuff they wanted and he knew he could sell this to me faster than a New York minute! :)
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by J.LeBrasseur » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:45 pm

Very nice Brian!
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by b.loree » Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:44 pm

Thanks James.....I really wish mine had the nice markings like yours but you can't have everything. They both are very nice pieces, have you noticed the difference in liner tongues that these have compared to any leather or filz OR"s haube? They are wider, more "stubby" in shape. I really think that yours and mine are "brothers", made by the same company, at least the shells were. Yours is a true M15 with feldgrau painted fittings, My fittings are chemically darkened brass and the spike is M95 style. Note also the rolled rim on these pieces which creates an extra step in manufacture, they got rid of that I believe, on the M42 WW2 stahlhelme.
PS: My leather strap on this helmet has brass fittings to match those on the rest of the helmet, are the fittings on your chin strap brass or steel?
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by Westfront » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:00 pm

Nice helmet :thumb up:

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by b.loree » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:20 pm

So to summarize, what we have learned from a picture that generated real examples of what we saw in a factory production scene. First, one example of a beautiful M15 feldgrau filz helme also seen in the foto. Second, one example of a feldgrau painted kit helme with black interior. Third, 2 examples of black kit helmets with all brass fittings also seen in this picture. Then, James and I posted 2 examples of similar feldgrau ersatz tin hauben which are not kit helmets. Mine has chemically treated brass M95 type fittings while his has feldg. painted M15 fittings. The shells and liners are exactly the same though, which would suggest the same company made them. My thanks to all for their kind comments, we do continue to learn here about our beloved hats! If any other member can provide further examples from their collections, please do so. A :thumb up: to all members for their comments.
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by MG34NZ » Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:55 am

[quote="Spiker"]Andy ,a pickelhaube collection without a stahlblech is incomplete ! :P just teasing…

Some day I hope to have a real collection....I will just have to keep accumulating until I do :D

Wish list : Stahlbelch
: Grabenpanzer
: Anything else that attracts my attention.....LOL

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by Spiker » Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:05 am

b.loree wrote: James and I posted 2 examples of similar feldgrau ersatz tin hauben which are not kit helmets. Mine has chemically treated brass M95 type fittings while his has feldg. painted M15 fittings. The shells and liners are exactly the same though, which would suggest the same company made them.
Indeed Brian, they are both from the same company, namely C. Henke from Witten, The helmet from James has a removable spike, meaning it was produced last.
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by b.loree » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:15 am

Thanks Ed for that information, how were you able to find out the name of the company? There are no markings that I can see.
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by Spiker » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:43 am

from a book :-" ...also, that mark is visible in James helmet ,it is on the liner ,in a place where it would not last long after wearing the helmet.
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by b.loree » Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:55 pm

Thanks Ed...I see where it is on James helmet. So I now see 5 1/2 faintly on mine so no maker name but size 55 1/2 cm. I think I can see a faint size marking on James' helme as well in the exact same spot, to the right of the stitch line.
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by poniatowski » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:31 pm

Nice photo and helmets all! I want a job in that factory. :wink:
Here are mine. Not as nice as some of yours but:

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I never noticed the little extra leather strip that is where the snap should be. Interesting.


Image

Image

:D Ron
I really do need to know more about this....

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by poniatowski » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:44 pm

Has anybody tried counting the helmets in that room? No, don't look at me! :wink:

:D Ron
I really do need to know more about this....

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by Spiker » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:29 am

I like your helmets too Ron ,both of them have seen some action ,as we can see by looking at the liners.

Counting those helmets is how I fall asleep. :laughing6:
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by rskins7125 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:51 am

=D> very nice.

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by b.loree » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:32 pm

Excellent Ron, thanks for posting your examples. Great to have 4 Heyden kit helmets to look at. Interesting to see once again the size number a "6" in this case hand drawn into the shell and stenciled on the front visor. In addition, another Henke pickelhaube, only this time the brass has not been darkened. It is very interesting to see the different variations produced by these two companies.
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by poniatowski » Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:44 pm

Thanks all,

Brian, it might be that somebody removed the darkening on the brass, but that's the way I got it, so... who knows.

:D Ron
I really do need to know more about this....

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by pickelhauben » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:02 am

This is a 3 year old post but the pictures are still cool.
It looks to me that the violin looking things are either liners or field covers .

The lady with a pile of wappens on her right looks to have a pile of visor trims on her left just in front of her.

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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by b.loree » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:15 pm

I am going to try and repost my original pictures here. This was an excellent original photo which produced good discussion. The lady in question is obviously operating some sort of "press machine". It does look like a stack of visor trim to her left and Prussian wappen on the right.
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by USMC-EOD » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:43 pm

I have one of these snapped together helmets.

No liner left in it, but you can see the spike is steel rather than brass, and the super thin brass wappen is attached with a single screw through the center of the eagle rather than with the peg through a slot like earlier ones.

The back of the wappen has never had a peg mount soldered onto it, and the original paint corresponds to the to wappen outline. So, screw attached only.

I think this type may have been made at the end of production for these helmets.
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Re: Ersatz pickelhaube factory

Post by USMC-EOD » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:51 pm

Also, on my helmet there is no slot cut into the crown of the helmet front for the corresponding peg mount that would ordinarily be on the back of the earlier manufactured helmets. Just a round hole for the screw that is in it.

No front visor trim or rear spine or holes for it either.

Like I said, I think this is one of the final variations of this type of helmet...

Bryan.

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