Bavarian kokarden: civic, cadet, militia or ? - photos fixed

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Schnabeltier
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Bavarian kokarden: civic, cadet, militia or ? - photos fixed

Post by Schnabeltier » Fri May 23, 2014 3:43 pm

Here's a pair of kokarden off a m/1891 Bavarian pickelhaube. The one on the left in the bottom image has been given a gentle, sympathetic cleaning; the one on the right is as-found. They are 39mm in diameter and are of a cast (not stamped) non-ferrous white metal . . . possibly a zinc alloy. Joe R. thought they might be related to a militia unit or a civic group of some kind.

Anyone care to venture an opinion? Thanks in advance.
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Last edited by Schnabeltier on Sat May 24, 2014 11:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

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ebeeby
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Re: Bavarian kokarden: civic, cadet, militia or ?

Post by ebeeby » Fri May 23, 2014 4:17 pm

No image showing for me...

Schnabeltier
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Re: Bavarian kokarden: civic, cadet, militia or ?

Post by Schnabeltier » Fri May 23, 2014 8:59 pm

PHOTOS FIXED!

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Re: Bavarian kokarden: civic, cadet, militia or ? - photos f

Post by timp_be » Sat May 24, 2014 3:49 pm

Hello.

For me it's not military and even not for an headgear.

Washers for a doorknob?

Best regards

timp_be

Schnabeltier
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Re: Bavarian kokarden: civic, cadet, militia or ? - photos f

Post by Schnabeltier » Sun May 25, 2014 1:10 pm

Ha! I thought they might be decorative pieces for a lamp. :D

Still, If Joe has seen oddball things like this before on Bavarian helmets, maybe there's more to it.

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Re: Bavarian kokarden: civic, cadet, militia or ? - photos f

Post by joerookery » Sun May 25, 2014 6:19 pm

I've seen these on something Bavarian before. I can't remember exactly what it was at either some sort of local police or town militia. They are odd.
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poniatowski
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Re: Bavarian kokarden: civic, cadet, militia or ? - photos f

Post by poniatowski » Tue May 27, 2014 1:44 pm

I've never seen these on a helmet. To me, they look like decorative bosses for a saddle or similar, string a loop of leather through and around to tie it off with a little class.
I'd be interested to know more if they are from any type of helmet.

:D Ron
I really do need to know more about this....

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poniatowski
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Re: Bavarian kokarden: civic, cadet, militia or ? - photos f

Post by poniatowski » Wed May 28, 2014 2:17 pm

poniatowski wrote:I've never seen these on a helmet. To me, they look like decorative bosses for a saddle or similar, string a loop of leather through and around to tie it off with a little class.
I'd be interested to know more if they are from any type of helmet.

:D Ron
Quoting m'self here. Never mind, most of the saddle rosettes I've looked at have two holes, so that idea is pretty much out.

:D Ron
I really do need to know more about this....

Schnabeltier
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Re: Bavarian kokarden: civic, cadet, militia or ? - photos f

Post by Schnabeltier » Thu May 29, 2014 10:09 pm

I should note that the square opening in the center of these were not cut after the disk was cast; the mold was designed so that square would be voided in the casting process. It fits the m/1891 four-prong side post perfectly. IMHO, it was clearly made for the purpose.

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Re: Bavarian kokarden: civic, cadet, militia or ? - photos f

Post by WWI Collector » Fri May 30, 2014 7:15 am

You guys cannot be serious. The hollow split tube that spay out four differnet directions inside the helmet for M91 posts can be square, but they are meant to go through a drilled hole..

Kokarden are stamped. These are cast.

These are decorative whatever for a door or a knob. That they are shaped a bit like the early Bavarian cockades is a coincidence.

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poniatowski
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Re: Bavarian kokarden: civic, cadet, militia or ? - photos f

Post by poniatowski » Fri May 30, 2014 8:53 am

WWI Collector wrote:You guys cannot be serious. The hollow split tube that spay out four differnet directions inside the helmet for M91 posts can be square, but they are meant to go through a drilled hole..

Kokarden are stamped. These are cast.

These are decorative whatever for a door or a knob. That they are shaped a bit like the early Bavarian cockades is a coincidence.

I hadn't thought of that type of hardware, but that sounds right. I googled 'German door knobs' and only got photos of politicians (I always knew Germany and the US had some things in common). :wink:

:D Ron
I really do need to know more about this....

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