Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

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ww1czechlegion
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Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by ww1czechlegion » Sat May 04, 2019 9:31 am

Hello,

I'd like to buy this particular Württemberg M15 Helmet that Scott Kraska sold a couple of weeks ago.

I will pay $1,400.00 for it if you want to sell it.

Or, if someone has one equally as nice that they would be willing to sell, I will pay that price.

Thanks,

Alan
Wurttemburg M15 Helmet 2.JPG
Wurttemburg M15 Helmet 1.JPG
Wurttemburg M15 Helmet 3.JPG
Wurttemburg M15 Helmet 4.JPG

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by Pontiac9999 » Sat May 04, 2019 3:33 pm

Wow, I saw this one and I was gonna buy it...for only $725....It was a heck of a deal.....but I didn't... :(

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by b.loree » Sat May 04, 2019 7:59 pm

The M15 Wurtt. is a rare beast in my experience. I was very lucky to find one at the MAX Show years ago. At that time, even my good friend Tony Schnurr who had a large collection even then, did not have one. It took him a few years later to finally add an example to The Kaiser’s Bunker. Mine is also unusual as it has a manufacturers stamp on the inside rear visor: G Leo BIEBERACH. An uberzug had been worn as the marks of the hooks are present on the rear visor.
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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by J.LeBrasseur » Sat May 04, 2019 8:58 pm

I tried to buy this one minutes after his update went on and got told somebody beat me....

Way it goes sometimes.

Here is a shot of the one I have had for years, complete with note from soldier where he picked up the helmet etc.

James

Image

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by argonne » Sun May 05, 2019 5:24 am

I must admit I made myself a big mistake too, as I sold this one a few years ago... ](*,) What a stupid decision....Wearer was from the 12/125 as the name tag said...And now I have tracked the guy in the Württemberg Kriegsstammrollen...He was baker as civilian and moved during the war to a small food supply unit in the Württemberg army ...But as I sold this helmet, the german archives were not online...What a pity....

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Philippe
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http://www.dekokopf.de/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-------------------------
"Laechle und sei froh, denn es koennte schlimmer kommen!" - Und ich lächelte und war froh - Und es kam schlimmer..."

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by Amybellars » Sun May 05, 2019 11:01 am

Wow all nice nice helmets.

Alan do take a look at some of my M15 wurttemberg. Do drop me an email at [email protected] if you are still looking for one to complete your collection.

Regards
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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by b.loree » Sun May 05, 2019 11:59 am

Wow Amy, I guess now we know why these are rare, you've got them all! :D . Here's some pics of mine, the chin strap is a repro but with original fittings. The M15 grey spike is one of the rare ones which is non removable.
Image

Image

Image

Image
Unlike the other helmets shown above, mine has a black dyed liner typical of the M95 helmets.
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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by ww1czechlegion » Mon May 06, 2019 12:49 am

Very nice helmets James, Brian, Philippe, and Amy! Thanks for showing us photos!

That is a rare spike to find Brian, the non-removable type M15!

Sorry to hear that you sold your fine Identified helmet Philippe. We've all done things like that, unfortunately.

I have sent an email to Amy.

I missed my best opportunity at a mint M15 Wurttemburg complete helmet for a mere $250 in a local antique shop back in the late 1980's. It was probably a liberty bond helmet, in perfect condition. I tried to talk them down to $200, and I lost out when I set it down and walked away when they would not go down on the price. My stubbornness caused me to loose out on a very fine helmet. At that time I had no idea how hard a nice one of these would be to find again.

Best Regards,

Alan

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by Amybellars » Mon May 06, 2019 2:16 am

Brian, correct me if I am wrong.

The non-removable spike is not unique to my knowledge. In the 70s, there was a load of non-removable spikes being produced in Europe and have been put onto the M15 spikes cos they are missing the removable spikes.

Till dates, I have not found any references to prove that the Germans use any non-removable M15 spikes.

I have come across two non- removable spikes so far, one came from AOK which they are also not able to tell me if the removable spike is original to the era.

Regards

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by Amybellars » Mon May 06, 2019 2:18 am

[quote=b.loree post_id=91412 time=1557071976 user_id=2]
Wow Amy, I guess now we know why these are rare, you've got them all! :D . Here's some pics of mine, the chin strap is a repro but with original fittings. The M15 grey spike is one of the rare ones which is non removable.


No Brian, I am innocent. I thought you guys didn't want them and left them for me. LOL

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by argonne » Mon May 06, 2019 7:00 am

Amybellars wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 2:16 am

The non-removable spike is not unique to my knowledge. In the 70s, there was a load of non-removable spikes being produced in Europe and have been put onto the M15 spikes cos they are missing the removable spikes.

Till dates, I have not found any references to prove that the Germans use any non-removable M15 spikes.

I have come across two non- removable spikes so far, one came from AOK which they are also not able to tell me if the removable spike is original to the era.
Amy,

A few 100% authentic early M15 helmets with non removable spikes are existing in a few serious french collections. Following the same kind of rarity, some M15 with all brass parts are existing with a brass removeable spike like the M15 spike. Here is an example of the JR180. All non magnetic parts and no golden paint!!! Truly all brass! A few other examples are known, all Württemberg.

Image

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Philippe
:wink:
http://www.dekokopf.de/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-------------------------
"Laechle und sei froh, denn es koennte schlimmer kommen!" - Und ich lächelte und war froh - Und es kam schlimmer..."

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by Amybellars » Mon May 06, 2019 9:47 am

Philippe
Thank you for sharing.

Nice example.

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by SkipperJohn » Mon May 06, 2019 10:55 am

I have seen Prussian examples of M15's with all brass hardware and removable spikes, so it's not just Württemberg.
It seems that most of the time the brass is chemically darkened on these.

John :)

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by b.loree » Mon May 06, 2019 5:46 pm

Well that's a relief! Amy had me wondering there for a few moments. :? I have never heard of M15 repro spikes being produced. Additionally, the patina/colour on all my fittings matches up perfectly. :thumb up:
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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by aicusv » Mon May 06, 2019 6:21 pm

The very first helmet I ever held in my hands was a Prussian brass trim with a M'15 removable spike (this was in the 1950's. F. Bannermann catalog listed non-removable steel spikes for sale in the 1920's (I think they went for 25¢). I had a Baden M'15 with non-removable years ago.
fezzes frigidus es

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by argonne » Tue May 07, 2019 3:01 am

b.loree wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 5:46 pm
I have never heard of M15 repro spikes being produced.
Brian, I do....And I saw some of them, but only such removeable. One can see the difference at the inside of the spike, where it is attached to the dome: the circumferencial groove is looking totally different.

Philippe
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http://www.dekokopf.de/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-------------------------
"Laechle und sei froh, denn es koennte schlimmer kommen!" - Und ich lächelte und war froh - Und es kam schlimmer..."

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by Spiker » Wed May 08, 2019 1:46 am

Image

Image

I have two non-removable spikes in my collection , never doubted them for a second.
It would be a lot easier to mount a spike of a bad shaped parts helmet ,then to make a new one.
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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by Spiker » Wed May 08, 2019 4:57 am

this is a fake

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by b.loree » Wed May 08, 2019 5:56 pm

Thanks for that last pic Ed, now I know mine is truly original. That fake has a weird shape and reminds me of the Indian made crap we see all over Ebay.
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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by Amybellars » Wed May 08, 2019 9:09 pm

They even have artillery m15 cannon ball in fake as well. I didn't take the pics but so far one ebay seller is selling it as original and it does look original at first few glances. I bought it to see the difference. Sorry no pics

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by Spiker » Thu May 09, 2019 1:32 am

I guess the huge order for thousands of helmets in the waryear 1915 must have asked some creativity from the makers.

For instance this helmet , also a Biberach like the one from Brian , it looks perfectly normal but actually it is a blackened felt dome.

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by argonne » Thu May 09, 2019 7:04 am

Spiker wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:57 am
this is a fake

Image
Why? I am not so sure :-k The thickness of the base remembers me the particular spike bases mounted on different patterns of steel Ersatz-helmets...

Philippe
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http://www.dekokopf.de/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-------------------------
"Laechle und sei froh, denn es koennte schlimmer kommen!" - Und ich lächelte und war froh - Und es kam schlimmer..."

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by Spiker » Thu May 09, 2019 9:05 am

:-s
Here is the fake ball version. Just look at is Philippe .
They are regularly for sale by French e-bayers.

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by argonne » Thu May 09, 2019 12:51 pm

Okay, if you say it :oops:
I must admit that I never look to ebay auctions that are only selling parts to complete a helmet. I am just looking for complete and untouched helmets.

I must say that the patina of those fake spikes and balls are very impressive and dangerous....Properly mounted on some authentic Ersatz war time helmets missing a spike or a ball, this could be a challenge to detect it. There are so many patterns of spikes and balls on such wartime helmets...

Philippe
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http://www.dekokopf.de/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-------------------------
"Laechle und sei froh, denn es koennte schlimmer kommen!" - Und ich lächelte und war froh - Und es kam schlimmer..."

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by Spiker » Thu May 09, 2019 2:14 pm

It takes just a few minutes to make metal look old , just heat it up with a flame and dump it in water , it will immediately turn to rust , oeps :oops: … hope I’m not giving some fakers new ideas …
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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by Amybellars » Fri May 10, 2019 8:48 am

Yap Ed that is the fake one.

I got it from the French buyer as well. He is still selling it regularly for about USD169+

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by SkipperJohn » Fri May 10, 2019 10:58 am

The spike would be easy enough to identify as a fake if you were looking closely, but the Kugel ball would be difficult. Other than the sharp edges on the locking ring I'm not certain that I could identify it as a fake.
Are these made of heavier metal than the originals?
What are some other identification characteristics?
Sometimes brass fakes are identified by the vent holes. On some British copies the vent holes look punched out rather than machined. Are there any special machine marks on any of these M15 fakes?

John :o :? :o :?

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by aicusv » Fri May 10, 2019 1:53 pm

Spiker wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:46 am
Image
Dang - Spiker- that looks like the one I had. Can't recall if it was marked or not.
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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by Amybellars » Fri May 10, 2019 7:33 pm

John the kugel fake has a flatter ring at the removable twist neck.

Weight wise, no difference.

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by Spiker » Sat May 11, 2019 2:29 am

[/quote]
Dang - Spiker- that looks like the one I had. Can't recall if it was marked or not.
[/quote]

Do you still have a picture ? should be easy to see with those marks on the visor.
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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by aicusv » Sat May 11, 2019 12:10 pm

I sold it back in the days before everyone had a camera in their phone (other than Dick Tracy), in the mid 70's. I did have some photos of stuff but no idea what happened to them. Let see when I sold it the helmet would have been a little over 50 years old and that was about 50 years ago.
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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by pickelhauben » Sun May 12, 2019 1:20 am

Boy this sure got way off of the subject.
I got one of these repo arty spike from a French dealer as well .
The bump on the neck is a little wider than a regular spike neck.
But I do have an ORIGINAL that has a wide one as well.
The real give away is actually the base itself
Is has sharp cut just like an officer type spike base.
A standard m-15 spike base has been rolled .
Scroll up the Baden and look at the spike base sitting on the helmet, then scroll up to the repo .
You can see how sharp it is .

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by Spiker » Sun May 12, 2019 2:35 am

aicusv wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 12:10 pm
I sold it back in the days before everyone had a camera in their phone (other than Dick Tracy), in the mid 70's. I did have some photos of stuff but no idea what happened to them. Let see when I sold it the helmet would have been a little over 50 years old and that was about 50 years ago.
So you sold it 50 years ago :-? :D no wonder you can’t recall if it was marked , I can’t even remember which of those helmets in my collection right now are marked.
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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by aicusv » Sun May 12, 2019 10:46 am

Heck, I can't even remember what all I've forgotten. At this point I have forgotten more than I remember.
fezzes frigidus es

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Re: Wanted: Württemberg M15 Helmet

Post by J.LeBrasseur » Sun May 12, 2019 8:42 pm

aicusv wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 10:46 am
Heck, I can't even remember what all I've forgotten. At this point I have forgotten more than I remember.
Ditto...
J.LeBrasseur

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