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Seebattalion/Seebataillon helmet plate

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:26 pm
by mpb
Hello,
My question is regarding the seeadler helmet plates used by the Seebataillon on their tropenhelms and shakos. I am familiar with the gold and gray/silver colors as well as the screw posts on those used for the shakos. My specific question is whether the same helmet plate with the screw posts was used for the tropenhelm or did they have another helmet plate specifically for the tropenhelm with rods soldered on them to permit them to slide through the loops sewn on the front of the helmets. I have not seen a Seeadler helmet plate with rods or sliders, only screw posts, so i am inclined to think they used the same plate that was used on their shakos. Furthermore, all of the examples of pith helmets that I have seen have holes adjacent to the loops, suggesting they used the wappen with screw posts.
Thanks in advance

Re: Seebattalion/Seebataillon helmet plate

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:21 pm
by chrispaulodale
From what you say, it sounds like they were the same. I guess what we need to do is measure different examples?

Does anyone have a Tropenhelm and Tschako to check?

Cheers
Chris

Re: Seebattalion/Seebataillon helmet plate

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:40 pm
by mpb
There are several beautiful pictures of naval pith helmets posted on http://www.germancolonialuniforms.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; from a private collection as well as the DEutsche Historische and Rastatt Museums. In the photos, one can clearly see the example of the gold helmet plate was not as fine or detailed and maybe smaller, than its predecessor, the gray one. That being said it may just be that these are examples of helmets for ORs. It may be that the gold plates used by officers was indeed larger and more detailed as was the case on the shakos.
On the same site, different page, is a photo from an exhibition in Meaux France, where one can see a naval pith helmet with a larger gold seeadler plate as would be seen on an officers shako. This leads me to think that the seeadler plates used for naval pith helmets followed the example of those used for the naval shakos, where officers had larger finely detailed plates and ORs were issued slightly smaller less detailed ones. It also suggests that the same plates were used for both the shako and the pith helmet.

Re: Seebattalion/Seebataillon helmet plate

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:10 am
by Chip Minx
My white metal example (appears to be aluminum) is of a material similar to the white metal colonial government pith helmet eagles. It has three sets of split prongs on the back, which I assume were inserted through holes and spread apart. The plate, for lack of a better word, is vaulted (concave), to fit the curvature of the helmet. The prongs are attached, one on each wing, 7cm apart, 15mm below the top edge of the wing just below the ends of the riband. The third set is positioned approximately 17mm up from the bottom tip of the anchor, right in the center, equal distant from the side tips of the anchor. The overall dimensions are 11.5cm from wing tip to wing tip and 9.5cm from the top of the crown to the bottom of the anchor. Of course, it would be somewhat larger if flattened.

I would say it is very detailed on the front.

Chip

Re: Seebattalion/Seebataillon helmet plate

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:11 am
by joerookery
Not exactly helmet plates but this was sent in by Sergio Semino

shoulder boards certainly attract a lot of attention.

http://www.kunst-und-militaria.de" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Seebattalion/Seebataillon helmet plate

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:23 pm
by joerookery
Once again Sergio Semino has sent in pictures that address the issue. We can only thank him for coming to the rescue! :bravo:

I do not know if these are still for sale or what the price might be. Sergio is very quick to answer emails and you can communicate in limited English. His website is:

http://www.kunst-und-militaria.de" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Seebattalion/Seebataillon helmet plate

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:03 am
by RON
Hey Joe, I actually bought the 3rd Tropenhelm in Sergio's photos that you shared but immediately returned it as it was too bogus and was most probably a parts helmet using a French tropenhelm shell. In my humble opinion, Sergio seems to have lots of bogus or parts helmets to say the least. He's also always willing to swap parts with other hats (e.g. feldzeichens) meaning he's not a great advocate of original helmets and their parts together which is a form of tampering... Not to mention the bad closeups and the selling of items (e.g. cockades) different from the photos he emails you...

More details on my tropenhelm misadventure here: http://www.pickelhaubes.com/bb/viewtopi ... aiserliche" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Before getting my money refunded, and since I had already lost the shipping cost, I tried to exchange the Tropenhelm for a Seebatallion "NCO" Shako but I refrained after scrutinizing the photos and too many red flags: http://www.pickelhaubes.com/bb/viewtopi ... aiserliche" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Seebattalion/Seebataillon helmet plate

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:47 am
by joerookery
Lots of different experiences! I have never bought a helmet from him. I did buy a helmet cover and a bunch of postcards and was completely satisfied. It has been very nice getting pictures from him to make the comparisons.

Re: Seebattalion/Seebataillon helmet plate

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:53 am
by Chip Minx
Joe,

The white metal eagle in the last photo is the exact same one that I have.

Chip