Opinion on a helmet plate with split backings

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Green
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Opinion on a helmet plate with split backings

Post by Green » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:11 am

Hello,
Recently I bought a Pickelhaube and these helmet plate came with it (do not belong to the helmet).
I had put it on other forum for an opinion and they say the attachment split brads are modern cheap split brads. IMO the plate has never seen a Pickelhaube, so why replacing the attachment pins for something else? I have a Clemen Entisted Prussian Pickelhaube ( last picture) with also a helmet Plate with split brads. But than again.... I am a newby on the field of Pickelhauben. I like to learn and a second opinion would be very much appreciate?
Maybe someone can enlighten me about this helmet plate :thumb up:

Image
Front
Image
Back
Image
Left split brads
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Right split brads
Image
Modern split brads
Image
Clemen pickelhaube with split brads helmplate attachment.

Cheers Henk
Last edited by Green on Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Tony without Kaiser
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Re: Opinion on a helmet plate with split backings

Post by Tony without Kaiser » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:52 pm

Henk, split brads are quite common on original wartime officer Pickelhauben. I have several. I suspect the person who told you they are only fakes has not collected enough helmets and Wappens to make a qualified opinion. However, you will find split brads on copies as well. So look at the Wappens itself.
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Green
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Re: Opinion on a helmet plate with split backings

Post by Green » Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:43 pm

Tony without Kaiser wrote:Henk, split brads are quite common on original wartime officer Pickelhauben. I have several. I suspect the person who told you they are only fakes has not collected enough helmets and Wappens to make a qualified opinion. However, you will find split brads on copies as well. So look at the Wappens itself.

Thanks for your answer and I know now the right therm.......split brad. You can see I am a new by :thumb up:

Bye the way I really love your site!

Cheers, Henk

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Re: Opinion on a helmet plate with split backings

Post by festwagner » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:33 pm

Hello

I have only one officier helmet and it has split brads. I removed the plate to show that
- the plate is the original one when you see the print in the leather
- the washer have been too in place for a very long time
- the soldered joint is clean, no patch-up job

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

So with this example, for me too split brad have existed.

An interested point, on my plate, the base of the split brad have no "long" base but looks like a bent bar. Differents types of split brad ?

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Green
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Re: Opinion on a helmet plate with split backings

Post by Green » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:29 pm

Thanks for sharing your pictures :thumb up:

Württemberg split brads & Prussian split brads...... :D

By the way, beautiful Pickelhaube, do you have some pictures so I can see the whole Pickelhaube?

Cheers, Henk

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Re: Opinion on a helmet plate with split backings

Post by KAGGR#1 » Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:49 pm

Great photos
and a good lesson
If Tony says it is O K ;
Then that good enough for me and Bobby McGee

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Re: Opinion on a helmet plate with split backings

Post by Leone » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:33 am

I'd advise don't unbend split brads needlessly, because it have property sometimes to break during extension.

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Re: Opinion on a helmet plate with split backings

Post by festwagner » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:49 am

Leone wrote:I'd advise don't unbend split brads needlessly, because it have property sometimes to break during extension.
I totally do agree. I did it and took lots of pictures because I will never do it again, indeed there is a real risk of destruction.

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Re: Opinion on a helmet plate with split backings

Post by b.loree » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:04 pm

Yes there are only so many "bends" in those split brads, you have to be very careful when taking them off and putting them back on. When I can for example on OR spike base brads or officer chin scale bosses, I heat (torch) the prongs to anneal the brass. This turns the metal soft again like new. You will have to clean these parts though as they darken with the heat.
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...

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Re: Opinion on a helmet plate with split backings

Post by pointystuff » Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:03 pm

What type torch do you use on the enlisted spike brads?

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Re: Opinion on a helmet plate with split backings

Post by b.loree » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:10 pm

Just the regular propane cylinder type that you can buy at any hardware store. A point of clarification on my last post...you can only anheal brass which is not soldered so...the OR's domed split brads and the officer chin scale boss prongs only. There will also be different styles of wappen split brads as they were made by many different companies.
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...

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Re: Opinion on a helmet plate with split backings

Post by pickelhauben » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:29 pm

If you heat and let the brass cool off naturally it will harden the brass.

If you heat brass and quinch in water this will soften the brass.

Regular propane ( blue bottle) will heat it enough .

I use MAP gas ( yellow bottle) this has propane and Oxygen ( I think those are the 2 gasses ) and gets REALLY HOT and blackens the brass . This softens the bass enough that you can tie it into a knot with out breaking.

Of course you have to quinch in water.

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Re: Opinion on a helmet plate with split backings

Post by b.loree » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:52 am

I will try the quench method as suggested. Funny though....I have never broken a prong due to not quenching?? Don't know why, as I am no metallurgist.
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...

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Re: Opinion on a helmet plate with split backings

Post by SkipperJohn » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:41 am

Green wrote:Thanks for sharing your pictures :thumb up:

Württemberg split brads & Prussian split brads...... :D

By the way, beautiful Pickelhaube, do you have some pictures so I can see the whole Pickelhaube?

Cheers, Henk
You can add Bavaria to the list (Wuerttemberg, Prussia, and Bavaria). I have a Bavarian officer helmet with split brads on the Wappen. I have never taken the Wappen off for fear of breaking it. Judging by the washers and the bent pins I doubt that it has ever been off.

John :)

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