Wrong Way, Bavarian

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joerookery
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Wrong Way, Bavarian

Post by joerookery » Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:36 am

Good wappen with pierced crowns and gilding. German silver landwehr cross. Here is the interesting thing the diamonds of Bavaria in the center of the Landwehr cross are going the wrong direction. Normally the diamonds go from upper left to bottom right. This is the second one I have seen like this. I do not know the significance.

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Re: Wrong Way, Bavarian

Post by J.LeBrasseur » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:07 pm

Thanks for sharing, we have talked about this before, different maker possibly?

James
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Re: Wrong Way, Bavarian

Post by joerookery » Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:17 am

J.LeBrasseur wrote:Thanks for sharing, we have talked about this before, different maker possibly?

James
I don't know. An absolutely Royal screwup? Why would you buy this?
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Re: Wrong Way, Bavarian

Post by b.loree » Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:56 pm

That strip soldered to the back of the largest crown, is that a repair because it broke off, or a reinforcement to prevent breakage? That is a unique plate, thanks for posting.
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Re: Wrong Way, Bavarian

Post by joerookery » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:01 pm

This is a guess but I think it is a reinforcement. Many of those crowns were broken off after the end of the monarchy. But I do think there is a way of telling for certain.
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Re: Wrong Way, Bavarian

Post by Robert » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:19 pm

Now that's strange indeed, as you point out the only correct way to display the diamonds is from top-left to bottom-right, with the diamond at the top-left corner being white. Maybe a contract work done outside of Bavaria with improvised tools (and lacking proper specifications)?

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Only in "split" presentations of coats of arms the direction is reversed, but this has a dedicated heraldic meaning in expressing a certain relationship.

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Re: Wrong Way, Bavarian

Post by kaiser » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:45 pm

that is one hell of a detail that makes a huge diffrence
that is sommeting i did not even knew

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Re: Wrong Way, Bavarian

Post by Gustaf » Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:13 pm

I believe that these are not original, the experts did declare that the other one was definitely a stamped cross an original, but it was definitely not from the same die as this one, the quality is better in my opinion on Joe's. I believe them to be cast and that is why they are backward, because the "artist" did not think to make a negative image.
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This is a poor image of the other, notice Joe's is stippled in the back ground and this one is lined.
OK, they are dolls, but they have kung fu grip! and weapons.

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Re: Wrong Way, Bavarian

Post by joerookery » Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:00 am

A little bit of support here. The cross is not soldered on. Regularly I would attribute that to self upgrade. I guess it is possible that he bought a cheap cross – maybe stamped and so applied it when he got commissioned.??? :-k
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Re: Wrong Way, Bavarian

Post by Gustaf » Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:23 pm

The thing that bothers me about this issue is the same experts who have declared the backward Bavarian crosses to be original are the same ones who will condemn a skull if it varies in the slightest way from the standard. These things were made when things were not standardized and were laid up by hand. there is going to be variation in different manufacturers and even in different runs.
There was another one of these backward crosses at SOS a few years ago, but I did not get a chance to look at it. When we can find two of them that are the same, then we can suspect that there is a possibility that they are stamped, but when the two examples that are known are definitely not the same, then we have to assume they are cast and one of a kind. They could have been made during the correct period on special order in mass produced crosses were not readily available or they could have been made after the fact for someone who wanted one for his own helmet. This would keep it out of the realm of fakes and this might be a likely possibility as they seem to be old and the reserve cross did not up grade a helmet enough to justify the expense of making the cross, unless there were collectors who wanted to complete their collection.
OK, they are dolls, but they have kung fu grip! and weapons.

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Re: Wrong Way, Bavarian

Post by poniatowski » Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:46 am

If you were making a mold to cast, chances are you would pour an investment or similar over an original, or a wax pattern made from one. Either way, the diamonds wouldn't change direction. It would be more likely that somebody cut a stamp by looking at an original and screwed up by not reversing the direction. If that would be the case, then perhaps a few of these were stamped out before somebody noticed the difference and they were sold at a discount (or even given away). Other than speculation, I couldn't really say. However, looking at the repair on the back of the plate (I've one similar on an EM Bavarian), it might suggest that this was a good looking plate sold at a discount. ?

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