Baden Plumes

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joerookery
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Baden Plumes

Post by joerookery » Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:33 pm

Here is an obscure one that I need a picture of. Randy, Glenn, and I have been going around trying to assert the validity or even the existence of a Baden colored plume for generals. Glenn has provided ver specific information; The Bekleidungsvorschrift is quite explicit: "Die Generale und Generalstabsoffiziere beim XIV. Armeekorps tragen preußische Uniform". I am not clear what a Baden coloured plume is?? Greneadier-Regiments Nr. 109 and 110 wore white (III. Battalions Black).

The color uniform pages in the generals book by Verlag-Militaria show very specifically a Prussian plume to include the grand Duke. But then in the book by HERMANN pg. 67 he says baden plumes for the princes of the ruling house as well as generals as chief of one of the Baden field artillery regiments were Baden colored. I remember seeing one somewhere. No picture. Does anyone have any information on this?
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Re: Baden Plumes

Post by 911car » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:13 pm

joerookery wrote:Here is an obscure one that I need a picture of. Randy, Glenn, and I have been going around trying to assert the validity or even the existence of a Baden colored plume for generals. Glenn has provided ver specific information; The Bekleidungsvorschrift is quite explicit: "Die Generale und Generalstabsoffiziere beim XIV. Armeekorps tragen preußische Uniform". I am not clear what a Baden coloured plume is?? Greneadier-Regiments Nr. 109 and 110 wore white (III. Battalions Black).

The color uniform pages in the generals book by Verlag-Militaria show very specifically a Prussian plume to include the grand Duke. But then in the book by HERMANN pg. 67 he says baden plumes for the princes of the ruling house as well as generals as chief of one of the Baden field artillery regiments were Baden colored. I remember seeing one somewhere. No picture. Does anyone have any information on this?
Joe, go to Laine's "L'armee allemande en 1914", p17, and you will find a picture of a "General as Chef des Grenadier Regiments Nr 109" with a red/yellow/white general plume.
Bruno

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Khukri
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Baden Plumes

Post by Khukri » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:29 pm

Gentlemen,

p 56 of J-L Larcade's Volume One

Rgds,

Francis

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Re: Baden Plumes

Post by Arran » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:39 pm

Here's one coming up for sale this spring that has the coloured plume:
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Re: Baden Plumes

Post by ww1czechlegion » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:45 pm

Hi Joe,

I'm going to try to take some good photos within the next month or so of a crazy helmet I know of in a museum.

It is a line Kurrasier officer helmet with a Baden tri-color feather plume.

As I recall, the helmet is missing the silk liner, chinscales, kleebaten & kokardes (so it is just a nice condition officer helmet shell with the frontplate & trichter intact).

The feathers are faded a bit, and dirty and not well kept over the years.

It has a supposed provenance when it was donated that it was supposedly "found sitting on a table in an empty house" in France in WW1. I know this sounds crazy, I agree.

It's been almost 10-years since I've seen it last, and probably 25-years or more since I was allowed to handle it in person. I look forward to photographing it close up in person this next time when I see it. I do have an old crummy 35mm photo of it somewhere packed away that I can't lay my hands on right away.

My question is: was the wearer of this helmet a Baden General serving as an honorary chief of a Prussian line Kurrasier Reg't, a Prince of Baden serving in a Prussian line Kurrasier Reg't, or what? The question has always intrigued me since first seeing the helmet so many years ago.

All the Best,

Alan

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Re: Baden Plumes

Post by joerookery » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:51 am

First, let me thank everyone for the overwhelming number of pictures. I was too stupid to look at Lacarde. but I have seen some other ones now so there is absolutely no question that this color plume existed.

Arran - That helmet was actually the start of a question. Prussian general – not a Prussian plume.

Alan – good question. I am not sure what any of these are. I am leaning towards some sort of royal personage from that state serving as an honorary Col. or something along that line. I just do not know yet. We have determined that it is not proper by the order. However, here you have all sorts of examples. What gives?

Thank you all for the responses.
VR/Joe
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the facts that are interesting in history, but the questions and their
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Re: Baden Plumes

Post by Glennj » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:26 am

I think the biggest problem is the fact that the wear/existence of a Baden plume does not appear to be officially documented. Such a beast certainly does not appear in the officers' dress regulations or the service regulations of the Prussian army nor the seminal works by Mila, Pietsch and Knötel etc. Possibly such a plume was authorized by the Grand Duke himself without Prussian military cabinet approval?

Pietsch illustrates the uniforms of the Grand Duke of Baden of 1914 below. None of the illustrated plumes are of the multi-coloured variety discussed in this thread. Similarly, The Kaiser's uniform as Chef of Grenadier-Regiment Nr. 110 in the same work shows a Baden infantry helmet with a Prussian General's plume.

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Re: Baden Plumes

Post by Glennj » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:05 am

However:

From the 1900 "Atlas des Deutschen Reichsheeres" which clearly illustrates the helmet of the then Grand Duke Friedrich I. But not a Prussian helmet with a Baden plume.

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Re: Baden Plumes

Post by Glennj » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:30 am

And again Großherzog Friedrich I with the same combination as above.

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Re: Baden Plumes

Post by joerookery » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:09 pm

More data provided by a member of the forum – a wonderful Baden with Baden plume from the estate of General Doctor Professor Dr. Kraste who I believe was a high-level Hofrat à la suite to the Sanitäteskorps.
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Re: Baden Plumes

Post by Glennj » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:53 pm

Joe,

that would be Generalarzt (Generalmajor) Professor Dr. Paul Kraske (1851-1930).

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Glenn

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